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proud new daddy!
 
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Why are all the full leather GTS's in Europe anyway?

I've always wondered why 99.5% of the U.S. GTS's never got the full leather treatment. I would think that at a '93-'95 price tag approaching the $100K mark, that full leather would have been standard and vinyl would have been optional. Forget the "down the line" kind of second or third hand thinking, I mean we're talkin' about a $100K car here!

I recently started looking at the European version of our Autotrader, mobile.de, and noticed that more than half of the GTS's for sale have the leather dash, center console, pod etc. All of the U.S. GTS's, for the most part with only a few exceptions, got the vinylized treatment from top to bottom. Doesn't seem quite right, or fair for that matter either.

Here are just a few of the GTS's for sale on mobile.de at the current moment that all have full leather. I will guarantee that you won't find a single GTS on U.S. soil for sale right now with full leather. Hell, there's only one or two that I know of that even exist period. So what's up with that anyway?

http://www.mobile.de/SIDMNbbw5oGFkT7SDHsLJMa4w-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=4&id=11111111230309430&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDMNbbw5oGFkT7SDHsLJMa4w-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=5&id=11111111274681392&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDMNbbw5oGFkT7SDHsLJMa4w-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=14&id=11111111273655988&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDMNbbw5oGFkT7SDHsLJMa4w-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=17&id=11111111256544792&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDu9y93OVfh90I5XMbuBvCKA-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1B21B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=26&id=11111111274365017&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDu9y93OVfh90I5XMbuBvCKA-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1B21B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=26&id=11111111274365017&

http://www.mobile.de/SIDu9y93OVfh90I5XMbuBvCKA-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ11879692 52A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1B21B20B42%81R-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100B11E20100Cgt sBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=32&id=11111111259554598&

And that's just a few of them. I'd say at least half of those for sale are full leather cars. So what happened to the U.S. GTS's? Apparentely they used up all their leather on their own cars.............

Low Miler

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Old 08-24-2007, 06:40 AM
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US dealers had a bear of a time selling them by the time of the GTS, so they ordered them with the least risk to profit.

How many of the full leather cars are covering a cracked factory vinyl dash?

Maybe full leather cars were preserved in part due to the premium interiors while lesser cars were scrapped?

Full leather cars that were scrapped might have the interiors transfered to other cars too.

Anybody have any idea what ROW attrition rates are compared to US where its so small?
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:51 PM
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The answer is simple: People in Europe who could afford a new 928

a. custom ordered them
b. know what's nice
c. didn't care about the extra cost
d. wrote-off the cars in a few years and sold them, so cracking was not a concern during their time of ownership

Remember that at the end, a 928 started at 160,000 DMs - at the time that was about $90k at the exchange rate at that time. That was for a naked car - no sunroof, no leather except seats, no rear AC, no heated seats, no metallic paint - in short: no nothing... A nicely equiped 928 in Europe did not start under $100k.

Then consider the cost of gas, and registration tax - all of which are a few times as much as in the US. Then you have Porsche dealers and people who know even less about a 928.. So you pay through the nose again.

Driving a 928 was only for the super-rich, or people who were a combo of wealthy and talented in wrenching. Today, they have a great 928 club of enthusiasts, and a few more good independent mechanics...
Old 08-26-2007, 12:29 AM
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That is one NICE looking GT. I'm sure Roger would be happy to neuter it for you.

I can't tell from the picts if the interior has some tint of color, or its lt grey picking up some color from the carpet. Seems kind of eery, but very appealing at the same time.
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US 83 zinc metallic 5 spd, aka the nice car.
Euro 85 black, 5 spd, the fast rough track car maybe car. SOLD
Euro 84 red, AT, only car in garage in years, my parts car, soon to go last 7 years.
Old 08-26-2007, 01:00 AM
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proud new daddy!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danglerb View Post
That is one NICE looking GT. I'm sure Roger would be happy to neuter it for you.

I can't tell from the picts if the interior has some tint of color, or its lt grey picking up some color from the carpet. Seems kind of eery, but very appealing at the same time.
It's actually a GTS and has been for sale for a loooog time too! Manual gearbox, low mileage and gorgeous full leather interior, so I wonder what the problem is? Maybe the purple exterior throws the fellas off a lil' bit, but either Barney or one of the ladies (Nicole perhaps? ) would look really nice behind that full leather stering wheel!

I personally think it's a classic gray/light gray combo interior danglerb, but those pictues could be deceiving. Whatever it is sure looks great though!

Todd
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:32 AM
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Personally, I would prefer cloth seats in my cars. What is the big ga-ga over leather anyway? If you travel in Europe you will find that most of the cars there, even the high end Mercedes and BMWs have cloth interiors.

Benefits to cloth:

Cool in summer
Warm in winter
Requires minimal care and upkeep
Higher coefficient of friction with your posterior
Will outlast leather and stay nicer looking longer

If one was looking for form following function, leather would be far behind cloth. Some of the older Audis offered a Sport Cloth interior here in the states...it was a really nice setup. But now you can hardly purchase a higher end car withour leather.

I believe it is the American market which drives the leather ga-ga fest.
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Big Gun: 1988 928S4 Twin Turbo, 5-SPD/LSD 572 RWHP, 579 RW ft-lbs, 12 psig manifold pressure. Stock Internals, 93 octane.
Little Gun: 1981 928 Competition Package Twin Turbo, 375 RWHP, 415 RW ft-lbs, 10psig manifold pressure. Nikasil Block, JE2618 Pistons, 93 octane.
Old 08-26-2007, 06:08 AM
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proud new daddy!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
The answer is simple: People in Europe who could afford a new 928

a. custom ordered them
b. know what's nice
c. didn't care about the extra cost
d. wrote-off the cars in a few years and sold them, so cracking was not a concern during their time of ownership

Remember that at the end, a 928 started at 160,000 DMs - at the time that was about $90k at the exchange rate at that time. That was for a naked car - no sunroof, no leather except seats, no rear AC, no heated seats, no metallic paint - in short: no nothing... A nicely equiped 928 in Europe did not start under $100k.

Then consider the cost of gas, and registration tax - all of which are a few times as much as in the US. Then you have Porsche dealers and people who know even less about a 928.. So you pay through the nose again.

Driving a 928 was only for the super-rich, or people who were a combo of wealthy and talented in wrenching. Today, they have a great 928 club of enthusiasts, and a few more good independent mechanics...
Excellent answer! I've always wondered why and now I know..........

Thanks Nicole!

Todd
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:33 AM
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proud new daddy!
 
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Here's one of my old favorites that was for sale in Germany about a year ago. You'd need sunglasses on fulltime for this crazy kelly green beast!





Here's a little more toned down full leather green machine! Suuuuweet!



Todd
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:59 PM
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That bright green interior would drive me crazy!!! You can only drive this with sunglasses on...

Last edited by Nicole; 09-01-2007 at 01:18 AM..
Old 08-26-2007, 09:45 PM
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I am looking forward to seeing some ultrasuede seats and dashes.

Hmmm, now that might be a reasonable product for somebody to make, something like the ultrasuede fabric has some stretch to it, so potentially a nice looking dash cover could be made that would slip over the dash without removing it.

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US 83 zinc metallic 5 spd, aka the nice car.
Euro 85 black, 5 spd, the fast rough track car maybe car. SOLD
Euro 84 red, AT, only car in garage in years, my parts car, soon to go last 7 years.
Old 08-27-2007, 10:42 AM
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