Found a nice S4 rear cover to replace the GTS cover on that concours '91 GT

[low miler]

I know that old '91 white GT of mine I posted about nearly a month ago with only 28K on it certainly caused alot of discussion the last time around, but not so much about the car itself. Anyway, I know that the rear bumper cover being a GTS replacement cover seemed to be a big issue with some, so I spent alot of time trying to locate a really good S4/GT replacement cover to return it to it's originality, since it's the only thing short of making it a truly concours car.

Anyway, I finally found one! The cover is off of an '87 and it's red, but it's still original and even retains it's original VIN tag. The guy is wanting $850 for it, but that seems like a pretty fair price for turning that gorgeous car back to 100% original! Of course, it would need to be repainted anyway to make it perfect, but I thought I'd just share this info with anyone that was really interested in that car, but the rear cover was their only concern.

Anyway, here's the car. How can we forget, right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Porsche-928-GT-ONLY-28K-COLLECTORS-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ250156438027QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 6432QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's the first acceptable rear S4/GT bumper cover replacement I found for $850 after searching for nearly a month now. Keep in mind that the GTS rear cover on there now would be an easy resellable item too:















I hope this helps anyone that might have genuinely been interested in this car, but had reservations on the rear cover being a GTS. Believe me, when I owned that car, I looked for a good S4/GT cover too, but they're nearly impossible to find nowdays.

all the best, Low Miler

[Danglerb]

Here is one for $1000, http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/394907681.html

Seller may be hard pressed to get the $34k they want even with a proper bumper, now that its been through the online shredder and two GT's have sold under $15k.

Is the bumper made out of anything special? Any reason somebody couldn't make a mold off one and duplicate it right down to the factory markings?

[Alan in AZ]

My understanding is that while it isn't "special" as in exotic - it is a polycarbonate and this is not easily molded in small batches like fiberglass. Differences - its flexible so it isn't likely to crack if its slightly bumped.. where fiberglass would easily crack.

This is less of an issue on a rear cover than a front (less likelihood of curb impacts) but still a concern...

Still for someone who wanted the car - I'd assume they'd really want the rear cover on the car and painted to match... Plus no hassles removing & selling the existing cover. Maybe its the pictures but it does not look that pristine anyway - hard to tell though.

Alan

[low miler]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Here is one for $1000, http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/394907681.html

Seller may be hard pressed to get the $34k they want even with a proper bumper, now that its been through the online shredder and two GT's have sold under $15k.

Is the bumper made out of anything special? Any reason somebody couldn't make a mold off one and duplicate it right down to the factory markings?

Nice find Danglerb! Looks way better than the one I found and includes, well, everything! Worth every bit of the extra $150. The only problem now is, with 928 sales in the crapper, I don't think a perfectly color matched, correct year, concours correction bumper cover is gonna save that, or any other 928!

Good thing I'm on vacation. Though it appears to be a great time to be stockpiling 928's right now. The red/black '87 S4 with only 10,000 miles on it that ran on Ebay a month or so ago and couldn't even bring $20K, is a perfect example. I'll take 10 of those at $15K to go please! And throw in a few $15K GT's while your at it!

Low Miler

[Red Baron]

I can't believe anyone would pass on that car over a bumper cover at that price.

[tdelarm]

Um…gee…maybe it’s because of PRICE or…the fact that its rear accident history has been COVERED UP!

The GTS cover is NOT the reason, the reason for the replacement is!

Currently the ad as written falls into two categories: misrepresentation or fraudulent misrepresentation which depends entirely on the dealerships current knowledge of any/all accident history as related by the previous owners…most recently Todd Johnson aka lowmiler I do believe.

In simple laymen’s terms…did or did not Todd Johnson give full accident disclosure as he knew it to the dealership and therefore is it the dealership that is purposely misrepresenting the car or, were they led to believe the car is as they advertise…100% factory original paint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Porsche-928-GT-ONLY-28K-COLLECTORS-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ250156438027QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 6432QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This 1991 928 GT is that car, this two owner California 928 is %100 original down to the lug nuts on the wheels, this 928 is %100 original let me say this one more time %100 every inch of paint on this car is just as it rolled out of the factory down to the front bumper.

Obviously the dealership either didn’t know that 91 GT 928 are not factory original with 93-95 GTS bumper covers or they’re lying, or have been lied too. I emailed the dealership a polite note letting them know of this and not receiving a response however noticed an updated ad although still misleading:

The last owner did update the rear bumper to the GTS bumper which is factory on the 93-95 928's, this was done only to update the car

Now we all know I posted a question to Todd Johnson several times in a Pelican Parts thread now closed regarding if he informed the dealer of this accident history…he apparently has invoked the “Fifth Amendment” and chose never to directly answer stating I didn't ask nicely. Although not true possibly a smart move on his part.

Either way someone’s lying and it could be a real pisser if Todd Johnson actually becomes responsible to them for damages due to incomplete accident disclosure. That would be a big bummer eh so I hope his deal was completed above board and it’s the dealer withholding information and therefore responsible for the current and possible fraudulent misrepresentation.

Perhaps when I have more time I’ll check into this because I was originally interested in the car before I found out of its history.

Knowing this…the price is set too high.

Best,
Tim

cc:
brent smith
ISIMPORTS
1219 Monterey St.
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
Phone: 805-215-5192
Email: ian@isimports.com

[Alan in AZ]

Well I don't know about all that...

But I think most folks would not want to screw with fixing something on a brand new (to them) aquisition. For those that care that it doesn't look stock - there is the question of why? but also how much of a hassle is it to fix this & how long will I be without my new toy. Significantly for the married ones - the disbelieving look on the lady's face when you tell her you are taking the just purchased car in for >$1000 of bodywork already... to fix what? - something that just doesn't look right? Much easier just to pay another ~$1000 in the first place...

Tough sell indeed - find someone who always wanted a GTS rear end or fix it premptively and sell the GTS cover.

This is why stuff on ebay that is slightly faulty goes for nothing even if it does only need a $1 doohickey to fix it...

Alan

[Danglerb]

We are talking about the owner of a car dealership buying a 15 year old Porsche. Its ludicrous to think they didn't check out the car and its history fully when they bought it. Its a California car, the accident happened in California and they are a California car dealer. Anything they "want" to know, they know.

I don't believe for a second that they are being honest about the car, and don't in fact know the bumper cover is from a GTS and not original.

Bottom line the car is slightly overpriced and the dealer seems to have no flexibility on price, so I have no interest, and seems like nobody else does either.

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by tdelarm

Um…gee…maybe it’s because of PRICE or…the fact that its rear accident history has been COVERED UP!

The GTS cover is NOT the reason, the reason for the replacement is!

Like I said, I can't believe someone would pass on it over a stupid bumper cover. Meaning that if the price was right, why would you pass on it?

And is the REASON really speculation? Or have you come accross an actual accident report or anything that would prove this car was hit by a school bus (so to speak) rather than something minor?

Not that I care, because quite honestly I truly don't. I use you folks for amusement only

[low miler]

Originally Posted by tdelarm

Um…gee…maybe it’s because of PRICE or…the fact that its rear accident history has been COVERED UP!

The GTS cover is NOT the reason, the reason for the replacement is!

Currently the ad as written falls into two categories: misrepresentation or fraudulent misrepresentation which depends entirely on the dealerships current knowledge of any/all accident history as related by the previous owners…most recently Todd Johnson aka lowmiler I do believe.

In simple laymen’s terms…did or did not Todd Johnson give full accident disclosure as he knew it to the dealership and therefore is it the dealership that is purposely misrepresenting the car or, were they led to believe the car is as they advertise…100% factory original paint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Porsche-928-GT-ONLY-28K-COLLECTORS-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ250156438027QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 6432QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Obviously the dealership either didn’t know that 91 GT 928 are not factory original with 93-95 GTS bumper covers or they’re lying, or have been lied too. I emailed the dealership a polite note letting them know of this and not receiving a response however noticed an updated ad although still misleading:


Now we all know I posted a question to Todd Johnson several times in a Pelican Parts thread now closed regarding if he informed the dealer of this accident history…he apparently has invoked the “Fifth Amendment” and chose never to directly answer stating I didn't ask nicely. Although not true possibly a smart move on his part.

Either way someone’s lying and it could be a real pisser if Todd Johnson actually becomes responsible to them for damages due to incomplete accident disclosure. That would be a big bummer eh so I hope his deal was completed above board and it’s the dealer withholding information and therefore responsible for the current and possible fraudulent misrepresentation.

Perhaps when I have more time I’ll check into this because I was originally interested in the car before I found out of its history.

Knowing this…the price is set too high.

Best,
Tim

cc:
brent smith
ISIMPORTS
1219 Monterey St.
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
Phone: 805-215-5192
Email: ian@isimports.com

Tim,

For the love of God, you have got to be the single biggest Todd Johnson stalker of all time! I think you spend all of your time thinking about me, checking my threads so that you can post something negative in them, checking Rennlist to see if I've logged in or not, saying all of my cars are junk and that conspriracy charges should be brought up against me.

The way you portrait the seriousness of all of the events in Todd Johnson's life, you would think the next thing you'll accuse me of is being the second shooter on the grassy knoll!

Todd

Find a positive hobby, job, chick, or dude in your case, or something, but just try and force yourself to not think about Todd Johnson for one day. I know it's gonna be difficult, but there's gotta be something else negative you can do with all this apparent spare time of yours.

[Red Baron]

There were three shooters.

[tdelarm]

Todd,

For the love of God just once tell the truth and answer the questions posed to you without all the drama. And stop attempting to debate me...it’s not your forte you nasty little spin doctor Is honesty so out of style these days!!!

Todd...your word for the day is megalomaniac. That should keep you busy for a few minutes.

Stalker…well again, whatever spins your prop I guess – It’s your fantasy but seriously here’s the reply email from the current advertising dealer:

Thank you very much for your email, I was not aware but obviously the
rear bumper paint is not factory due to the replacement but as
accident history I have no known information. We actually bought the
car from a Mercedes Benz store that took it on trade. WE WILL FIX
THE DESCRIPTION.
Thank You,
Ian Smith

And Abby writes –

And is the REASON really speculation? Or have you come accross (you mean across?) an actual accident report or anything that would prove this car was hit by a school bus (so to speak) rather than something minor?

Not that I care, because quite honestly I truly don't. I use you folks for amusement only

Abby – As you so kindly alluded to in your previous deleted post I am not a drama producer but I do pay attention to details. Apparently I appear to be a nonconformist in that category here on Pelican. No one mentioned a bus…however now you have. We do know the car has been involved in a rear end mishap of sorts. Is it minor…perhaps, but if I was the purchasing party I’d want all the details and you would too. So am I so wrong for wanting to have all history information? Sure, I’m going to bust Todd’s balls because he is party to some of that necessary information.

You know, I guess it boils down to if it benefits you its ok and doesn’t matter that others are getting screwed…that’s the vibe I’m getting from several here. Kind of like we screw the other guy and pass the savings on to you.

Look Abby, I have no beef with you but do you believe the above line to be true?

[Danglerb]

How much of a negative is it fair to give to this car, simply because we know something of its history, compared to the majority of cars where NOTHING is known?

If careful inspection reveals no sign of damage, then the ONLY hit to its value seems to be the intensity of speculation, how much the mud sticks.

It seems unfair to me and needlessly rude.

The nasty comments have to stop, this isn't grade school. I don't see how the people posting in the fashion they are can fail to see how badly it makes them look.

[Red Baron]

Yah, I deleted "drama" because there is plenty enough already however thanks for the spell check, you're really good at that. A guy fat fingers the C and you are so quick to catch it that the rest of the post becomes meaningless.

Are you asking me if I like seeing people get screwed? I think that's what you are asking, and my answer is no. I just believe you have beaten a dead horse and have yet to unturn anything that would prove this car was mis-represented.

You're really not doing yourself any good continuing this, Tim. You never make yourself look good trying to make someone else look bad. And that's what you and a few other's have done, imo. Also since your NOT the purchasing party, why keep this going?

[tdelarm]

Abby-

OK...You're right. I'm done and have better things to do.

Tim