interesting Euro GTS for sale on U.S. soil

low miler · 10-17-2007, 08:25 PM

I came across this unusually optioned and apparent U.S. DOT/EPA approved Euro GTS in the Autotrader today. Has the extremely rare factory front fender flares and the factory color coded rear mud flaps. I would assume it's been Americanized, but I could be wrong. No price and no mileage, but a Maryland license plate. I wonder what he's asking for this one?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=232205728&dealer_id=61331125&car_year=1994&model=928&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=1993&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=&make=POR&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=46236&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=475

Interesting.

Todd

Nicole · 10-18-2007, 12:47 AM

That's a Japanese version, or a Euro/RoW car that has been converted for Japanese requirements. AFAIK, Japan was the only country that got these funky fender flares.

Great that they could import and register it without adding ugly side markers or extra bumpers.

I love the color!

low miler · 10-18-2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

That's a Japanese version, or a Euro/RoW car that has been converted for Japanese requirements. AFAIK, Japan was the only country that got these funky fender flares.

Great that they could import and register it without adding ugly side markers or extra bumpers.

I love the color!

Me too! And yes, the lack of those ugly add on side markers is a nice touch. I wonder what he's asking?

Todd

Danglerb · 10-18-2007, 07:09 AM

I wonder how "registered" it is.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

By '95, I would "guess" the cars were within federalized specs.....

However, the one thing you folks missed is that this is a left hand drive car.

If I remember correctly, all cars destined for Japan (England and Australia as well) would have been right hand drive.

So, for those who are ultimately more knowledgeable than I, please explain that little issue to us......

Shall we try a Canadian ROW, perhaps????

(the advertisement was not specific as to origins, history, provenance, etc., so what's the deal?)

---------------

low miler · 10-18-2007, 05:57 PM

Could be from anywhere but here I would assume. Personally I didn't know those front fender flares were Japanese specific. I've seen them quite a bit on mobile.de, the european equivilant of our Autotrader and they were all euro cars.

I gotta say, I like this car!

From the color combo to the front and rear flares, it's one sweet, yet mean looking machine!

Todd

Danglerb · 10-18-2007, 07:22 PM

If somebody in the US ordered the fenders that way, isn't their a good chance Porsche might have put ROW fenders on US spec and VIN car?

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

right hand drive versus left hand drive?

Euro/ROW versus US spec.

Perhaps you could contact the current owner and see if there is a provenance on the car? Maybe find out it's origins just for kicks?

(It would keep Danglerb busy for five minutes.....just kidding)

low miler · 10-18-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhjames

right hand drive versus left hand drive?

Euro/ROW versus US spec.

Perhaps you could contact the current owner and see if there is a provenance on the car? Maybe find out it's origins just for kicks?

(It would keep Danglerb busy for five minutes.....just kidding)

Just for ****'s and giggles, I was going to give him a call today, but was just to busy to talk cars. But I'll give him a jingle tomorrow to get the real scoop on this somewhat mystery GTS. If he did get it in here legally, you gotta give the guy some credit. That was bigger than huge he got it in without add on side markers and rear bumperettes. I think it would be safe to assume no cat either. NIIIIICE!

I'll let you guys know what he has to say tomorrow night.

Todd

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Mmm......my Euro has been here for 27 yrs or so, without CATS, front side markers, and no rear bumperettes.

Federalization on mine amounted to rear side markers (actually BMW units---YUK!!!!) and a MPH gauge.

at least, that's the way it was when I bought it (?)

I'd put a quarter on this one having CATS.....unless someone removed them--you never know with these cars. Probably has a mph gauge as well? If it's kph, I'd still lean towards a Canadian ROW model due to left hand drive.

Love the color---too bad it's got a slushbox.

Danglerb will lose sleep over this one........

-------------

Danglerb · 10-18-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhjames

Danglerb will lose sleep over this one........

-------------

What makes you think I sleep?

Early 80's importing cars was a circus, states and fed didn't share info, and flat out race cars got tags in Alabama. By the middle 90's the system turned into the present DOT and EPA nightmare. My guess is that if a car makes it physically into the US, that there are still states where it could slip through and be registered, and others where it could not.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

glad to see you're paying attention.......

Nicole · 10-19-2007, 12:07 AM

There is not much we know about this car, until we get info from the owner. Maybe Todd can get the VIN. But I can tell you it is not a US version - that's for sure. Side markers were not optional, and Porsche would and could never have imported and legally sold a car in the US without them.

Even today, they have to have amber side markers with reflectors on the new cars - unlike the clear/smoked ones you get in Europe. People retrofit the Euro markers nowadays, but Porsche can't sell the cars that way.

Similarly, they could not have sold a 928 without the proper markers. The 928 Euro side flashers are not markers - they are wired differently and have no reflective area.

RHD vs. LHD: Yes, I realize that Japanese factory versions would have had RHD. Which is why I said it might be a conversion. That would still require the fender flares to cover the wheels.

Again, I know of no other market than Japan that got these. However, that doesn't mean others could not buy them as parts and add them.

So, hopefully Todd will enlighten us soon!

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Nicole,

I have put in a call about the car, but so far just a voicemail recording.

It is a ROW car, but no other specific info on the ad.

Not to beat a dead horse, but are you saying this might have started life as a right hand drive, destined for Japan, and then been converted to left hand drive and imported to the US?

If so, you're talking about some serious work on the body structure/firewall, not to mention the side marker issue (removal of side markers, front and rear) and rear bumperettes (removal). Side-of-seat controls would also have been changed right to left, left to right. I personally doubt that any of this was done, as it would be very expensive and probably be easily found if one looked close enough. As to the side markers (front and rear) I have seen more than a few Euro/ROW examples where a rear was added, but none to the front fender (mine is one of those examples). How this one got through the process without either, is subject for debate(?) I would suspect that CATS are still in place, as most of the world by the early 90's had started using them. Emissions compliance would have been easily handled, if that is the case.

In my opinion, I would be less inclined to buy if it's NOT original, considering that there are other examples out there for about the same money (and legal).

I say Canadian, then brought here.....legally Federalized?----maybe.

---------------

Rixter · 10-19-2007, 08:12 AM

not all Japanese spec 928s were RHD, a number of them were LHD... there is one here in NC

low miler · 10-19-2007, 08:39 AM

Like rhjames, I couldn't get ahold of the seller either. I left a message on his voicemail and will hopefully get a return call sometime today. Unfortunately I'll be out of town until tomorrow so I won't be able to answer the "what in the hell is this thing" question.

Todd

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

OK kids---here's the deal:

Nicole gets the prize for guessing it's original destination---Japan.

I did receive a call back from the current owner, a very nice gentleman collector of rare exotics.

The provenance of the car is that it was ordered and delivered to Japan with left hand drive. It is an ROW car, hence the deleted side marker lights. I did not ask about CATS, but presume they are there as the car is legal for import to the US. It seems that (according to the seller) anything post 1987 is legal to imported to the US because manufacturers from that year to present have built their cars to conform to US Federalization. The key figure in this is none other than Bill Gates, who supposedly had an early Jaguar 220 (?) on hold with US Customs for over two years waiting for clearance----apparently he finally made a few calls and got the car cleared (non-Federalized) and that got the ball rolling for everything else.....

Yes, it has kph speedo, with approximately 69,000k on the odometer (about 30K miles or so). The paint is a very rare color, although he was unsure just how few of the last GTS's were painted this color (maybe 3 or 4???)

He tells me that the Japanese have a thing for left hand drive cars, although they do drive left hand drive in everything else. It seems to be a matter of pride for those who can afford them (left hand drive cars), so they are quite popular there. Consequently, this car is original and has not been modified in any way. In fact, he was very forthcoming about his driving habits with his collect-ables, including this one. Never spinning his rear on the seat upon entry or exit, never rubbing the seat bolsters upon entry and exit---all of this to not cause any wear to the seats, if it can be helped. He went on about engine warm up and cool down, and how he is extremely careful about speed bumps and such---very meticulous.

As for as the coachwork, not one rock chip or flaw anywhere to be seen, as well as the underside of the body. I take it from him that the car is virtually pristine to the point of being ridiculous.....

An added note to this is that his wife is Japanese, so I imagine he has quite a bit of knowledge as to their auto preferences.

He bought the car from a dealer in Japan that deals in 928's only, various year models from the late 70's to the very last GTS's. More info followed that I can't remember, nor care to write about, but you get the idea. It was a very pleasant conversation, and lots of information that I really had no clue about.

Asking price is $49,900 or there abouts. He said he would entertain offers for very serious buyers.

Just wish it had a stick------

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

I should proof read my stuff more often:

I should have written:

The Japanese drive "right hand drive" for everything else.

Sorry for the confusion-----

Danglerb · 10-19-2007, 02:43 PM

If he imported the car using the "Show or Display" rules, I wonder what that means to a potential buyer?

Seems very common that a seller may "claim" no problem for you to register, when they in fact have no idea if its even possible. This is the first Japanese model I have heard of making it into the US, but they are commonly sold in Canada at VERY reasonable prices. Take a look at some of the prices and mileage from recent sales, if it was "easy" it would be happening a LOT.

http://www.terra2imports.ca/ab-listings.php?model=928

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

I have only reported what the owner has told me, nothing more--nothing less.

I knew Danglerb would question all of this or throw in some other issue to muddy up the discussion once the info got out.......

Danglerb, here's the deal:

I did check with my resident freight forwarding expert about these issues. She tells me that ANYTHING can and probably has been imported into the USA. It often depends on who you know, whether it be a customs official, DMV official from what ever state, or whomever......despite what the Bush administration tells you on FOX NOISE channel.......Do you see where this goes?

If you are bent on finding fault with these issues, whether it be Federalization, passing the smog cops in California, or what ever you still have a phobia about, please do all of us a really huge favor:

Do the research and report your results. Your endless speculating does nothing to further anyone else's knowledge on the subject at hand, and educating some one who has interest in these subjects is certainly more productive. Calling into question things like show or display rules doesn't do much for this subject either. You may have just frightened off a potential buyer, and that would be just wrong in my opinion.

That's why I called the guy.....to find out where it came from and how it got here. I thought it might be educational for most of us, to find out more info as to where some of the 928's ended up, if not in our own hands.....

I really wasn't trying to make a deep discussion out of this, just have some fun with others in trying figure this one out.

Again, if it had a stick, I'd have spent the morning shifting 50 large out of money market funds and been on a plane tonight to go get it......

-------------