A first - no broken waterpump bolts

[John Taylor]

One of the local guys bought his very first 928, an '87 5-spd with 101K miles. Totally neglected with no maintenance history, parked the past 7 years, original t-belt and water pump from what we learned. A bunch of us volunteered to help him get things right, so he could also learn the process. For weeks all of us told him our personal horror stories about water pump bolts breaking, especially if the pump has been in there forever. We started this morning at 5:00 am in jimmyt's garage, and to our amazement, the new guy was able to get all the water pump bolts out without breaking one. Has to be a first. The t-belt was really worn, but all teeth were there, no cracking or chipping. Had 6 quarts of oil in it, came oozing out like asphalt on a hot day.

Some owners should be shot.

[lizard928s]

I have never had one actually break on me either.
I have however had the threads come out with the bolts.

[rhjames]

original T-belt, oil looks like asphalt, hasn't run in 7 years.......

My first reaction is "How stupid."

My second reaction is "Why even change the T-belt?"

given those three things you listed, my shot would be:

1. pull the motor and totally go through it.--- $3500 minimum

2. totally disassemble and repair the fuel system, starting with the fuel tank and work forward.--- $2000 minimum

3. totally rebuild the brake/clutch hydraulic system.--- $1000 minimum

$6500.00 plus the purchase price of the car.

and this is just to get started.......not counting labor (yours, his, a Porsche tech----not that it matters)

(hope this guy didn't spend over $500.00 for this wreck......to use your example John, he could have bought a nice S4 5-speed for less than what it'll cost him to do this one "right")

You'll argue about it, but that's the way some of us see it......

Sorry--

--Russ

[rhjames]

reminds me of this:




I know, it's not an S4, BUT......

not worth messing with considering transportation costs, rebuilding issues, and it's just a US spec/Auto OB.......

Far too many nicer 928's on the market to warrant dumping any money into.

Didn't you have this conversation with the guy before he bought a basket case?

--Russ

[Danglerb]

Sad to say Russ, but with the three I have now if I saw that one by the side of the road I would be stopping to look.

[Pauwl]

Russ,

love the pics. The first one reminds us all of why it's called the Land Shark. It's just waiting there for an 911 to come by, will then pounce and run all over it.

Stealthy... I like it.

[rhjames]

Well John,

it's not the cost in most cases (for some of us) with something you're passionate about.

It's like Alice Cooper said at Barret/Jackson the other day. I don't remember his exact quote, but something like "There are lots of great cars out there. It's nice to be able to own a few of them."

Yes, Danglerb rambles on about this and that, but in the end he does have three 928's, which is more than can be said for most of us. And, he's got two Euro's.

You've now stated the cost figures on the one your buddy has, but I personally wouldn't trust the engine, no matter how good Porsche built them.

As I stated above, you're still looking at brake/clutch hydraulics, internal engine issues, fuel system issues, and whatever else 7 years of non-use has taken it's toll on......

It's nice that you guys have rescued one, BUT........

You're at $7K now. "Put another $4-5K with it and you could have passed on this one for a really clean S4 and not needed to do a damn thing to it.......except drive it home."

I believe that was your critique of what Danglerb is up to?

For that matter, you could have spent $22K and bought that junk GTS sitting down here south of Houston and really had something to work on......


----Russ

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

it was an easy 120 mile trailer ride from his house.

I think I know that car, came up a few times on ebay with wacky terms and bad picts with wrong description, someplace in sort of the boonies north of LA off interstate 5 with "park" in the name? Estate sale if I remember, kids dad bought the car and parked to work on later and never did. I sure didn't know it had a 5 spd with LSD if its the car I am thinking of.

The supply of 85+ LSD 5 spds is pretty low right now, and kind of in demand.

[rhjames]

I just thought it was pretty lame of John to bust on Danglerb for his buying spree, and then get right involved with the same kind mess rescuing an S4 that may or may not be something that could be saved without costing a ..........well, fortune.

Maybe his brain will come around after he gets back from the deep freeze.....

Too many Porsche guys (particularly 928 owners) telling others what to do with their money and desires.....

---Russ

[jsbc]

Originally Posted by rhjames

original T-belt, oil looks like asphalt, hasn't run in 7 years.......

My first reaction is "How stupid."

My second reaction is "Why even change the T-belt?"

given those three things you listed, my shot would be:

1. pull the motor and totally go through it.--- $3500 minimum

2. totally disassemble and repair the fuel system, starting with the fuel tank and work forward.--- $2000 minimum

3. totally rebuild the brake/clutch hydraulic system.--- $1000 minimum

$6500.00 plus the purchase price of the car.

and this is just to get started.......not counting labor (yours, his, a Porsche tech----not that it matters)

(hope this guy didn't spend over $500.00 for this wreck......to use your example John, he could have bought a nice S4 5-speed for less than what it'll cost him to do this one "right")

You'll argue about it, but that's the way some of us see it......

Sorry--

--Russ

I would love to know where your pricing comes from I recently rebuilt a seized engine (skimmed the case halves line bored the mains back to original plus oil seal bores and oil pump bore crank grind mains only new brngs main and rod new rings decoke and new gaskets $2000NZ . I bought all my parts from the U.S. and I was lucky enough that i did not have to buy 16 lifters at 80U.S. and all that includes a new cambelt and misc. bits I was the mechanic so labour was for the love of it.

Why shag around with the fuel system drain the old gas flush the system run in some injector cleaner and replace any dead injectors if any .

As for the clutch replace pressure plate if worn ,you'd be a dumb b------- if you did not while doing engine out work anyway. If not doing engine work wait for the clutch to give out before spending anything.

Lets be honest guys these cars are worth peanuts and if your not up to the work stay away from them. Both my cars cost me 4kN.Z. each as no goes first one cost me a new water pump and cambelt second cost me engine rebuild .
There a nice retro car to drive quite fast and all that but lots of cheap cars go a whole lot faster taday.I don't think 928s are going up in price yet so remember its money down the tubes if you spend too much on one best buy an aston martin instead.

[Danglerb]

These cars are not "worth" peanuts, they just sell for peanuts right now.

I think the market may be cracking open for "really" nice cars, which for the most part have sold for a very small if any premium over fairly rough cars. The weak link in resale prices are owners of nice cars that don't know the value or don't care to spend the time it takes to sell a rare car at full market price. As long as savvy buyers know nice cars show up cheap with patience, why pay more?

****************

If your friend is happy with the 928 he bought thats great, and $7k for an 87 5 spd is also a great price. The notion that what worked out for him applies to anybody else is kind of silly though.

[rhjames]

prices are what prices are....

I only made this list showing what could be involved with a car that has been sitting still for over seven years as described.

Sure there are things that some of us would not spend money on, but it can get very expensive.

The whole point of this was to show that John doesn't know all of what some of us intend in buying less than perfect 928's, but he tries to convince us that he knows better.

Some us don't even like S4 or later models, and if we choose to buy and fix up OB's, it's our money and effort to do so.......

S4 and later are more complicated, require other tools besides basic working knowledge of CIS fuel injection, and are more of a "refined" 928.

The OB's are, in some cases, just pure raw fun. They're not as fancy, nor do they pretend to be. For what little difference there is performance-wise between the two (OB and newer), I find it is more fun building the OB's....

Some of us enjoy researching, modifying, and putting our own touches in a car, as opposed to just buying the local garage queen......

for the money I'll have in my Euro/hybrid, buy the time I get it completed with a blower, I'll as much in it as a low dollar GTS. I just would not have had as much fun starting with a GTS and then just slamming a blower on it.....


---Russ

[928GT]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Excuse me for offering an opinion. These lists just aren't worth my time, I have many better things to do.

From what I read you and some buddies offered to help save a Shark and not only did you accomplish this but did it for a reasonable price. Perfect and congrats! I'm not sure why people have a problem with this. I hope you keep contributing.
Merry Christmas
Jim

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Yeah, I know better, that's precisely what it is.

I have many better things to do.

Hopefully a snow shovel will be involved.

Happy holidays John.

Avoiding cheap rough old 928's is good advice. This forum exists because people can't resist the cheap ones and need help, which they in turn pass on to others. If there was a simple effective way of dealing with a 928 that people were willing to accept, we wouldn't need the forum.