1980-1984 models vs. 1987-1995 models

[911blex]

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the majority of members on this 928 forum have a preference towards 1987-1995 928 models and that many believe that the pre-32V cars should be avoided. Other than the obvious horsepower, transmission, and clutch improvements of the newer cars; are there any other systems that are more troublesome or difficult to fix on the 1980-1984 models? Or could it be that some forum members believe that most 1980-1984 928s should be avoided as many of them have been badly neglected and/or are studies in deferred maintenance that will cost $1,000s to make them right?

I may be wrong, but I believe the 1980-1984 models may have the following advantages over the 32V 928s:

1. Non-interference motor, which reduces risk of experiencing "catastrophic interface".

2. Electronically less complex (i.e. I foresee the more complex electronics in the later 32V cars becoming more difficult to live with as these cars get older and parts become harder to find).

3. With the exception of European-spec 928s, full leather and "unique" interiors seem to be more commonly found on the early 928s than the later 928s.

4. Most of the used parts for the early 928s are easier to find and less expensive as a lot more of these cars are being parted out than the later 928s.

Please keep in mind that point of this thread is NOT to start a heated debate, but to get feedback as to whether I would like be happy owning a clean/well-maintained 1-2 owner early 928 after owning a 1988 S4.

[Danglerb]

The perception of relative value isn't recent, if anything its maybe smaller now than it was 20 years ago. Pretty much everybody that bought a US pre 32v 928 felt shagged by Porsche by the time the 32v came out. Early cars had terrible trade in values compared to other Porsche models, and warranties were over so repairs were coming out of owners pockets. At the time when I learned the details of the S4, I completely lost interest in owning an early model.

BTW the early dual disc clutch is clearly superior to the later single disc, its just more expensive, and that is why Porsche changed to the single.

The big 3 reasons old vs new .......

1) Many people who could not afford to maintain a 928 bought early models and didn't take care of them. As a consequence now it is VERY hard to find a really nice condition early car.

2) "It costs just as much to fix up or maintain an old 928 as it does a newer one" Not completely true in my opinion, but not that far off the mark either. Used parts are cheaper for the older cars, but upgrades and parts from Porsche are not, and older car usually need more stuff.

3) Newer cars are faster, and have more features.

Thats it in a nutshell. Best choice for most buy and drive types, are the newest. Best choice for those who want to add a lot of tinkering to the mix, a 16v car, a Euro S IMHO.

[Fabio421]

I read thatthe reason porsche wen't away from the dual disc clutch was because many technicians had trouble getting them adjusted properly and it was the cause of many customer complaints. Being the owner of two cars fitted with them, I must agree that they are a pain in the @$$.

Regarding the topic of this thread. S-4's are a higher baseline if you like performance and all of the leather and plastic bits are a little less likely to be crunchy because they are newer. I like the rear of the S-4 better but the front of the S model best.

[Alan in AZ]

There is nothing particularly wrong with the 80-84 cars - however 87-95 cars are newer, more powerful and have more features.

Yes there is more electrical complexity - but well maintained that is not a hugely bigger issue... plenty of electrical issues on 80-84 cars too!

Are parts cheaper for 80-84 due to recycling market...? not so much really... Most 87+ parts are also readily availabe from recycled cars (all but the later low volume GTS specifics).

Recycled '87+ parts are also again newer so likely to be in rather better shape.

Buy the latest car you like & can afford to buy & maintain... and find one in good initial condition so you don't have to invest heavily to get it into shape. Yes earlier cars often had more leather - but at this age much of it may be needing work so questionable if its a pro or a con...

Alan

[icemang17]

I think the majority of online 928 owners have an S4 or later 928....

Some of the early 928 were plagued with electrical & other reliability problems...that Porsche supposedly fixed with the 1987 model..... However I have seen early 928's that are very reliable & I've seen S4's that a nightmares!!

A more accurate comparison would be a Euro 4.7L 16V vs the S4....the Euro motors made between 300-310hp & tend to dyno strong...almost the same as an S4..but the Euros are lighter!! The most apparent difference is the lower torque from the 16V engine....

[evozine]

Here are my two cents, as I've been a 1984s owner, and an avid board reader for approximately 3 weeks- thereby qualifying me as an expert!

Summary-- I prefer the lines, trim, etc of the earlier models, and I like the fact that I can maintain a 24 year old car myself, without getting too much complexity in terms of electronics, etc., but we'll see about that..

1, I just put in new spark plugs, I am guessing that changing the plugs on a newer engine is a tighter fit because of where they are.

2, it looks like the newer engine's intake system takes up more space than my older spider intake, therefore leaving less room in there to work on the engine.

3, yes, it does seem like some parts at least are less expensive for my older car.

4, I really enjoy having great condition leather seats, I find the checker pattern cloth seats on other models a bit outdated.

5, My older car doesn't cost much at all to insure.

I found one I liked and just dove in head first with only a minimal pre purchase inspection. This 84 is now my daily driver that goes in the garage at night, while the benz sits in the driveway....

http://www.evozine.com/porsche

[DSC928]

Buy a GTS and be done with it!

[Landseer]

I'm really enjoying an 84 5 speed, but would probably enjoy any of the others as well. I like the fact that I have one of the top 10 most notable cars in the 1000-car parking lot at work, but am in the bottom 10 percentile for money expended.


Just a fine point, Sachs clutch kit is available for around 650 for dual disc. ( two disc sets, pressure plate, throw-out bearing and pilot bearing (wrong one).

Need to add another 750 ish for intermediate plate, though, plus the proper ball bearing-equipped pilot bearing.

(bought and installed this stuff 2 weeks ago, so it is fresh in my mind and my wife's mind as well unfortunately)

[Danglerb]

My suspicion is that MANY if not most of the nicest cars are NOT for sale, and change hands within friends and family not the open market. All we know about are the cars people don't want to keep and the few where circumstance forces the sale. With the 87+ cars selling for $10k to $20k there is a much greater chance of a nice car being sold, vs a pristine early car where the owner may not think it will sell for much (as in what a dealer might offer for a trade in).

You also need to buy what you like, or what fits the usage you have in mind. Jim Bailey makes a VERY good argument for 83 and older as a track car due to the racing class being competitive vs 84 and newer where it isn't unless you go with an all out unlimited type racer. If you want a 5 spd, chances are you will be happier with a 5 spd older car than a newer car with an automatic. Other factors for other people will mean more than 32v vs 16v. Course its very hard to argue with I have X to spend and that buys zero newer cars.

[911blex]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

My suspicion is that MANY if not most of the nicest cars are NOT for sale, and change hands within friends and family not the open market. All we know about are the cars people don't want to keep and the few where circumstance forces the sale. With the 87+ cars selling for $10k to $20k there is a much greater chance of a nice car being sold, vs a pristine early car where the owner may not think it will sell for much (as in what a dealer might offer for a trade in).

I'd have to agree with you that the nicest and 1-2 owner cars are generally not for sale or change hands in the "private market". I have only come across one of such cars in the midwest, which was a one-owner brown 1981 automatic car with 84,000 miles for $6,000. I was so tempted to buy it, but couldn't get over the fact that it was brown.

[hacker-pschorr]

I like starting with a car that is 300 pounds or so lighter.

Upgrade the brakes (cheap) add a couple hundred horse power......my kind of 928

[SeanR]

Originally Posted by rogue

That white '78 junker #64 could have been the ultimate cheapo street legal track car. Light weight, non-sunroof, 5-spd. Interior was junk anyway, gut it completely, throw in a racing seat and rollbar, install 85/86 exhaust manifolds, new tires and brakes and go for it.

EDIT....whoops, meant to post this to that socal crusher thread.

It would be a great canidate, but only for a person that was local. I feel bad for that car, it needs a home, and not in the crusher. I'd have taken it home just to do something like that, but the costs of transportation would have been more than we'd get out of it on the track.

It might have a great starting base and I wish someone would pick it up.