Are 928 sales really this bad right now? This ain't good at all!

[low miler]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1992-Porsche-928-GT-Original-Owner_W0QQitemZ360064436259QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truc ksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360064436259&

Now is there something about this low mileage black '91 GT that I don't know about, because the auction just ended and the damn thing sold for $22K. $22k? Yep, $22K and with only 42,000 ONE OWNER miles too. And did I mention that it was also black, which just so happens to be the most popular 928 color? This is not only discouraging for 928 values, but personally discouraging for me considering I'm currentely sitting on two 928's, both of which have more miles than this car did. Yeah, his ad was less than exciting, but the car should have spoken for itself, especially with it's perfect Carfax report, color, mileage and one ownership. Damn, this really scares the H out of me!

Todd

[Danglerb]

Yes this is a SUCK time to be selling a 928.

Six exterior picts from a cell phone aren't how to sell a nice car. I'd say the sellers listing cost him about $5k, but the picts show so little it could easily be the car sold for $5k or $10k MORE than its really worth.

I don't think you should be real worried, the type of car and buyer you work with are somewhat insulated from reality.

[DanielDudley]

You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. As always, some great cars sell low, and some real dogs will be sold for outrageous sums. As always, you are not looking for the average buyer, you are looking for one buyer.

Consider getting a web sales site under your real name, with a company name. Consider selling a few 911s and 944/51s there as well, to draw in a few more clients.

As you continue to sell good cars, your reputation will grow, and people will seek you out, both to buy and sell from. They will frequent your web site even when not in the market, just to see what you have listed.

There is a market for known quantities, and a sure place for integrity in this world. You need a permanent place where people can find you.

[rhjames]

all one has to do is watch the financial shows and look at the numbers....

the big four are all reporting huge losses in sales, fuel is going nowhere but higher, and the markets are entering into bear territory, and inflation is already heading skyward.

it all spells "no one is spending money that they don't need to spend".

not surprising that 928s are on the market in greater numbers, and not selling as well as they have in the past....

--Russ

[pcar928fan]

That car is likely a heck of a driver! One owner under 45k miles for $21kish... Not bad in my bood (retail wise anyway). If you were looking to make money on the thing you would have to get it for about $15k and put a good detail job into it as well as maybe a few little repairs. Could cost you a few $k's then you would be good to go selling it in the $21k-$24k range... Might be a great car for someone. I bet the deal would not give him $13k on trade in value...maybe not even that much!

James
Austin, TX

[rhjames]

yes, it really shows how much sales of the breed (and generally anything else) is in the tank----

when a car like Joe Dyer's isn't even taking a hit, it's a bad sign.....

(blown GTS----very, very nice)

As I told Joe, if I didn't have so much other stuff going on with three trucks using $10K in fuel every month now....and customers continually complaining about it, the car would be sold yesterday and sitting in my garage.

I just can't justify turning loose that much cash with this uncertain economy.

--Russ

[low miler]

Originally Posted by rhjames

yes, it really shows how much sales of the breed (and generally anything else) is in the tank----

when a car like Joe Dyer's isn't even taking a hit, it's a bad sign.....

(blown GTS----very, very nice)

As I told Joe, if I didn't have so much other stuff going on with three trucks using $10K in fuel every month now....and customers continually complaining about it, the car would be sold yesterday and sitting in my garage.

I just can't justify turning loose that much cash with this uncertain economy.

--Russ

Are you refering to the white GTS on Ebay right now? If so, here's my thoughts on that car. First let me say that he did a first class job on the supercharger. But I think here inlies the problem. Even though he's put alot of time and money into making that car blow (no pun intended) most any car off the road, it's no longer anywhere near stock condition anymore. Supercharging is neat, but it's individualized, meaning the majority would most likely prefer for it not to be messed with. I think most 928 buyers are looking for cars as close to completely original as possible. Personalizing a car only seperates you from what the majority is looking for.......a 928 that looks like it did when it was new.

Case in point, about 4 years ago, I sold a stock '94 polar silver/black GTS to a gentleman named Chris who went by the username CMW on Rennlist. He paid $30K for the car from me, which was probably to cheap at the time considering it sold within 10 minutes of my posting it on the RL classifieds. Anyway, once he got the car he immediately turned it into a twin screw something or other at quite an extra expense. About 2 years ago, he put it up for sale for $45K with twin screw being his selling point. No takers. He dropped it to $40K, then $35K and then I eventually lost track. I would have to assume he finally ended up eating everything he put into that twin screw and most likely the new owner returned the car to stock, though I'm only speculating.

My point is, his car is very unique, no doubt, but it's also as far from original as possible. I personally think that's scared off most 928 purists who are looking for a nice, unmolested 928 GTS to buy. His is definitely not that car. The prices these cars are bringing right now is simply awful as well. But in about 3 weeks, I'll be putting up a completely original '93 GTS, fully documented and bone stock. The miles are a bit higher at 78K, but let's just see if my theory holds any water or not. I certainly wish Joe the very best with his sale, but I think his buying audience is a much smaller group than that same car in stock form, that's all.

Todd

[rhjames]

yea Todd, same car.

You know the market for those much better than I, just hate to see one like that not go as quickly as he had hoped.....it's plenty nice.

I just thought the price was plenty right, considering the blower and such. I would have done the deal, but as I told Joe, the car doesn't have a stick and business concerns are limiting my play money.

(Besides, Deb said if I bring another ride home, it better have MOPAR written on it---as in a SS/BA car or something similar--- I think she misses the smell of 106 octane and burnouts.....)

--Russ

[low miler]

Originally Posted by rhjames

(Besides, Deb said if I bring another ride home, it better have MOPAR written on it---as in a SS/BA car or something similar--- I think she misses the smell of 106 octane and burnouts.....)
--Russ

^^^^Now there's definitely something to be said for that! And I concur!

Todd

[Danglerb]

I agree with Todd, any move from stock seems to reduce value. Another factor with the white GTS is that it has a blower in California, and that will go no place in a smog inspection.

Ironically if the blower was pulled off most likely it would sell quickly for $5k and so would the car for $30k.

[low miler]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I agree with Todd, any move from stock seems to reduce value. Another factor with the white GTS is that it has a blower in California, and that will go no place in a smog inspection.

Ironically if the blower was pulled off most likely it would sell quickly for $5k and so would the car for $30k.

Exactly. In fact, I meant to add that note to my post. If the owner, Joe, would just return the car to original condition (e.g. wheels, stereo, guages, engine etc.), then he would have absolutely noooo problem pulling $30K out of that car. What's that blower worth? Thereagain, I have absolutely no idea about anything mechanical, but if you say $5K, then sobeit. That's $35K! Alot better than $15K, which is all it appears to be worth as it sits right now.

Todd

[MarkRobinson]

I'll sell my 2x concours-winning 20k mile turbo 86.5 5-speed for a mere $45k that's a deal, $55k new (I have the window sticker)

[jcb928]

For a $30k-$40k budget a nice GTS has allot of competition from newer cars that are easier to finance.

04 Mercedes E55 with 463 HP and warranty for $37k,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E55-AMG-CERTIFIED-PRE-OWNED-100K-MILE-FACTORY-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ120275248581QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6 335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

03 CL55 AMG with 493 HP for $39k,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Mercedes-CL-55-AMG-493-HP-Silver-Black-CLEAN_W0QQitemZ270252482216QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3185 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For $42.8K you could by a new 08 Vette with some options and new car warranty,
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?page_id=45

BUT GTS prices have nothing on the house deals,
http://top10realestatevalues.com/

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by jcb928

For a $30k-$40k budget a nice GTS has allot of competition from newer cars that are easier to finance.

04 Mercedes E55 with 463 HP and warranty for $37k,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E55-AMG-CERTIFIED-PRE-OWNED-100K-MILE-FACTORY-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ120275248581QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6 335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

03 CL55 AMG with 493 HP for $39k,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Mercedes-CL-55-AMG-493-HP-Silver-Black-CLEAN_W0QQitemZ270252482216QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3185 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For $42.8K you could by a new 08 Vette with some options and new car warranty,
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?page_id=45

BUT GTS prices have nothing on the house deals,
http://top10realestatevalues.com/

Yes but buy any of these cars and watch them plummet from there. Not that they aren't fast and modern but they sure don't drive like a 928 or are as exclusive as one. I see these by the dozens everyday and that isn't the point of owning a car like the 928. Nobody looks twice at them they aren't a great driving car like the 928, all they are is fast and can't handle for ***** except the vette but they still haven't begun to depreciate and if you think a 928 can be expensive off warranty just wait until the air suspension or one of the multiple computers on these things goes bad. Shocks on an E55 without install wholesale pricing is close to $2k for one shock a computer can run thousands. They also aren't selling any better than a 928 because they suck the gas down too.

The market is flat for most of these cars now I would say if you have the $$ now is the time to pick up some good deals and sit on them for a few years. They will be worth more again for the right car.
As far as recession goes it is different depending on where you are. Around me a 900 Sq ft condo has gone from $550k a few years ago to just over $700k for the same place. So it all depends on what market you are in.

[blitz928]

Around me Panama City Beach, FL , the 900 sq. ft condo that sold for $550k 2 years ago, now wouldn't even get $300k.

Sad...

Matt 87 s4

[Danglerb]

A house is essential, a 928 is a toy, two very different budgets. Porsche's get sold for down payments on houses, and houses get second mortgages sometimes for a Porsche, but when times get tough the Porsche goes first.

[N2O-SHARK]

It is finally cheaper to buy a second shark for parts than the parts themselves. For those of us that bought a shark for fun and to complete a childhood dream, lower prices are great. I have no interest in resale. Lower prices mean I can more afford to keep the sharks I have now running. I can now even afford a nice dedicated track car. I can get a decent 86.5 for under $5k to convert.

I bought my first shark knowing I would put far more $$ into it than I would get out of it. However I've had as blast doing it, even the engine rebuilds, and would do it again in a minute. When I finally cracked my block (Too much N2O) I didn't think about another grand invested for a new block, I thought about the time I would loose off the road. When it's sitting is when I might think about the cost, but when it's burning up the road... priceless.

[Danglerb]

Too much N2O or was the timing or A/F bad?

I'm thinking about Brett in the UK and his 1000 hp shot Euro motor.

[N2O-SHARK]

Cracked the cylinder side. A/F was fine. I have a dynotune A/F controller that kills the N20 if it runs even a little lean. Timing is also fine. My N2O controller automatically retards timing 8* which is 2 * more than recommended for 250hp. When I swap the block, Ill look at the rod to see if it was damaged as well.

On stock internals with 250RWHP on top of what a hybrid makes, I think it was just too much. Close to 550RWHP+/-. I know a couple SC and Turbo cars are hitting that mark, but they are S4s. Not sure if the S4 and later internals hold up better. And of course the monster HP strokers are a whole different ball game internally...

I plan on going back to the 200RWHP shot to be safe. I ran 175hp for over a year and 200 for about 4 months. Just got greedy...

Only other thing it could have been is that the spider's design made that one cylinder go lean. I have 2 nozzles, one on each side of the TB boot. I have always worried about equal coverage to all 8 cyclinders. Perhaps it's time to go direct port on the giggle gas for consistancy. It was the number 2 cylinder. Did not blow the head gasket.

[rhjames]

I too have been suspect about spray plates, as opposed to direct port injection.

You've probably been following Brett Arnley's (that spelling is probably wrong--sorry) car, as he has NOS/fuel lines plumbed directly into his manifold tubes.....


--Russ