Car will not crank

[orange9mm]

After hurricane Dolly I notice that the voltmeter was reading lower than usual. The car had sat outside for the storm but luckily water never surged onto my drive way, just a lot of wind and rain. The car started fine and I was able to drive it for about 2 days with the low voltmeter read, around 10 volts. Then the other day it wouldn't start, no turn over or anything. I thought I might have run the battery down so I replaced it and still no start. The instruments light up, battery light comes on, and I can hear the fuel pump while trying to crank but no crank ever happens. Is my starter dead or could it be my alternator? I hooked up jumper cables from my truck thinking it could be a bad new battery but still nothing it won't crank. At one point I did have to cross a very deep ( almost 4-6 inches or so ) body of water in the road to get off the island. Could that have corroded something under the car. Any thoughts/suggestions...

[N2O-SHARK]

Take the starter off and jump it directly from your jumper cables. Bendix gear should extend and spin. That will at least eliminate the starter. Or take it to autozone and they will check it for free.

Make sure you have voltage to the starter solenoid, when the key is turned .

[whiteSC59]

Water in ignition is NOT a good thing. Plug wires, dist cap, air filter assly all need to be dry. good luck...

[orange9mm]

thanks for the starter test idea. i will pull it and put in in my table vice and see if it spins. i might have killed the starter when attempting to start the car after the storm. it didn't want to start so i cranked it and cranked it until it finally started.

i did check to make sure everything was dry after the rain stopped. there were palm tree debris in the engine compartment but the intake was dry. the car did run for 2 days before deciding not to start.

my wife had the right idea. she left to visit her parents in ny. next time i am leaving the island when they predict a storm is coming. the tropical storm turned out to be a cat 2. we did not have power for 6 days and all i stocked up on was beer and cold cuts

[Danglerb]

Battery cable comes forward to the starter solenoid, and from the solenoid to the jump post. Lights and so forth, but no crank sounds like the solenoid is not engaging. That could be a bad solenoid, or no signal from the ignition key. (solenoid is a big relay)

The water dread on the 928 is the area directly in front of the windshield. A plastic panel covers the AC fan motor and wiper assembly, but doesn't seem to block leaves etc from getting under the cover. The bottom of the compartment on the passenger side has a drain hole with flap about the size of a playing card which is supposed to allow water to drain into the engine bay. When blocked with leaves etc. water rises up and drains down right on top of the relay panel, and/or down the inside of harness to the brains.

Clean all the connections and put on some kind of protective coating like silicone grease.

[orange9mm]

more info. i didn't get a chance to pull the starter but i did test the battery volts and clean the ground at the spare tire well. battery reads 12.68, when i turn the key the car's voltmeter on the dash reads low 11 or so and when i crank the volts drop.

1. shouldn't the car's voltmeter read at least 12 when in key is the on position ( i can't remember )?

2. is it correct to assume the ignition is working since i see the volts drop on the gauge while trying to crank?

3. if i read the 12v switched wire on the solenoid while trying cranking and get 12.6 volts is is safe to assume it is the starter?

[N2O-SHARK]

Sounds like the starter. The pod gauge will seldom be accurate. Try loosening up the starter just a smidge. If it's binding that may free it up. Tighten back up and your off. My old starter would bind once every couple months. A quick loosening and then retightening would fix it for a while. Never bothered to shim it.

[rhjames]

first have the battery checked. yes, it may show 12 volts, but the minute you try to use cranking amps, there may not be any.

once done, reinstall (replace) the battery, then try to crank. if it spins, you've found your issue. if not, pull the starter and have it bench tested.

the starter is hung low under the car (as you know), so if you did a minor river crossing with it, it may have (salt) water in it. Not a good thing......

after that, it's on to the car's electrical system>>>>>>>

good luck--

--Russ

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by orange9mm

more info. i didn't get a chance to pull the starter but i did test the battery volts and clean the ground at the spare tire well. battery reads 12.68, when i turn the key the car's voltmeter on the dash reads low 11 or so and when i crank the volts drop.

1. shouldn't the car's voltmeter read at least 12 when in key is the on position ( i can't remember )?

2. is it correct to assume the ignition is working since i see the volts drop on the gauge while trying to crank?

3. if i read the 12v switched wire on the solenoid while trying cranking and get 12.6 volts is is safe to assume it is the starter?

1. Meters in the pod are not reliable, mine does not match up with the battery or jump post.

2. See number 1, but what do you mean by crank? Is the motor turning over? When the starter is turning the motor the current draw is very heavy from the battery and a drop of a few volts is normal.

3. If the voltage at the solenoid doesn't drop a couple volts no substantial current is flowing through the starter. Could be a bad starter, bad solenoid.

When you turn the key to the crank position, do you hear a fairly loud click or clack type sound from under the car?

Does the motor turn or not?

Clean the power connections, but don't forget the grounds, especially the ground wire from the bottom of the motor to the chassis.

[orange9mm]

Lame ( what is point of the gauge if it is wrong on most 928s ).

Motor never turns over, I meant turn the key to the crank position. The drop on the gauge makes me think something is trying to happen. No clicking or noticeable noise can be heard from the bottom though. I can hear the fuel pumps whirling.

Is the motor ground the one that goes from the bottom right inner motor compartment to the exhaust flange on the down pipe or is it somewhere else?

The water crossing really pissed me off. I had no choice, it was on a divided highway where the only way to go is straight ahead. It was late at night and there was no indication that the road was flooded either ( although a hurricane had just passed the day before ). Luckily I had my high beams on and slowed down before hitting the water. It got really deep, deep enough that I worried the car would not make it across and I would be SOL. After I made it through I thought to myself "That was GULF water and full of salt. I bet I ruined something.". A day later and the car won't start.

[whiteSC59]

starter locked up or faulty. remove it and bench test for free at autozone. They can check amperage pull or bad bushings to boot.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by rhjames

first have the battery checked. yes, it may show 12 volts, but the minute you try to use cranking amps, there may not be any.

once done, reinstall (replace) the battery, then try to crank. if it spins, you've found your issue. if not, pull the starter and have it bench tested.

the starter is hung low under the car (as you know), so if you did a minor river crossing with it, it may have (salt) water in it. Not a good thing......

after that, it's on to the car's electrical system>>>>>>>

good luck--

--Russ

Originally Posted by orange9mm

Lame ( what is point of the gauge if it is wrong on most 928s ).

Motor never turns over, I meant turn the key to the crank position. The drop on the gauge makes me think something is trying to happen. No clicking or noticeable noise can be heard from the bottom though. I can hear the fuel pumps whirling.

Is the motor ground the one that goes from the bottom right inner motor compartment to the exhaust flange on the down pipe or is it somewhere else?

The water crossing really pissed me off. I had no choice, it was on a divided highway where the only way to go is straight ahead. It was late at night and there was no indication that the road was flooded either ( although a hurricane had just passed the day before ). Luckily I had my high beams on and slowed down before hitting the water. It got really deep, deep enough that I worried the car would not make it across and I would be SOL. After I made it through I thought to myself "That was GULF water and full of salt. I bet I ruined something.". A day later and the car won't start.

I repeat my earlier suggestions about checking the battery first.

My Dad had this same problem with his----lights turn on, fuel pumps run, but engine/starter will not turn over>>>>cause: bad battery.

As for driving thru the salt water....there is your next problem. Not only has your starter probably been filled with salt water, but you alternator will be full of it too. Come to think of it, better check/drain your transaxle as well. And then there is the issue of CV joints----are your CV joint covers/boots in good condition?

The engine ground strap will be on the lower passenger side of the engine block, connecting to the passenger side frame rail. Yes, this is under the exhaust manifold/down pipe.



Start with the basics.

battery, starter/starter soleniod (if you have one), wiring (including ignition switch)


Yes, you are correct that the (dash) gauges are not reliable. This is well documented.


good luck--

--Russ

[orange9mm]

ouch, thanks for rubbing it in

the cv joints were rebuilt, repacked, and new boots last year. the boots still look new.

i will change the tranny fluid just as a precautionary measure. it is a cheap reassurance.

i did notice the car showed usually low voltage on the gauge the last day i drove it so the alternator might be suspect. but the car should at least crank regardless of alternator condition right???

i will pull the starter and have it checked. stay tuned...

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by orange9mm

ouch, thanks for rubbing it in

the cv joints were rebuilt, repacked, and new boots last year. the boots still look new.

i will change the tranny fluid just as a precautionary measure. it is a cheap reassurance.

i did notice the car showed usually low voltage on the gauge the last day i drove it so the alternator might be suspect. but the car should at least crank regardless of alternator condition right???

i will pull the starter and have it checked. stay tuned...

Battery, battery, battery..........then starter, then alternator.

good luck--

--Russ

[orange9mm]

ran into a snag so i was not able to pull my starter. don't have the proper size hex drive to unbolt the starter. what size are the starter hex bolts, 10mm? i was able to do some volt readings at the starter. i have 12.6 at the battery connection and when the wife cranks the car i get 9+ or so at the little switch wire on the solenoid. i think it is definitely the starter now.

[lizard928s]

orange9mm,
iirc it is an 8mm allen key for the starter, however I would recommend that you get a set of metric allen keys.

[Red Baron]

Did you check your ground strap?

[orange9mm]

is it me? i can't for the life of me get a 8mm hex bit to fit in the cramped area ( this is without it even being connected to my ratchet ) the starter case is preventing the hex bit to fit. i can only get it to barely fit at the angle it allows. it just slips as soon as i apply pressure. not to mention that when the bolts loosen the area will get even smaller. what gives? what am i supposed to use to get these bolts out???? help..... am i supposed to be using the L shaped allen keys?

[ROG100]

L shaped allen keys are best for getting it started.

[lizard928s]

you either have to use an allen key (not a socket), or a wobble head allen socket.

It is a PITA though.