The value of new paint

Danglerb · 06-09-2009, 12:16 PM

When I see ads for cars with new paint, I never say what I really feel since its going to come out rude, and the seller won't be educated, just offended. Its got to come out, so here is my open rant on fresh paint.

Feel free to add your own views.

I think maybe the most expensive, visible, and irreplaceable part of a 928 is the factory paint. Porsche used methods impractical to duplicate, and super hard paint that seems to have no modern equivalent. Maybe its out there, but I have yet to see the repaint that equals factory paint in good shape. Some look pretty good for awhile, but after a few years seems like all the resprays start showing flaws or wear.

My apologies to those who choose to respray, no offense intended, especially so to those who do their best to restore cars whose factory paint is beyond hope, its just my opinion no different from a view on engine swaps.

So what do I think of the "fresh paint"? What have I held my tongue about?

You've substituted the most valuable and visible factory part, the paint, for a new non Porsche part of lesser quality. I understand you may like it, but it has substantially and permanently reduced the value of the car.

Everything else I thought about is still too rude, used car lot comments etc.

american-kiwi · american-kiwi's Garage

i think that was nicely said...i agree.....at first i hated the color of my cashmere beige 502...i wanted to paint the car soooooo bad!...now...i think if i went to a "928 only" show...i would most likely have the only one there in that color...and most of it is still the original paint...i understand if someone buys a car...and the paint falling off...they'll want to repaint it..otherwise....leave it alone!.....
....i have seen people repaint a car...only cos they were too damn lazy to use some elbow grease..and give it a cut-n-polish..these are there words "ahh the paints f'ed on this...i need to get it painted!"...no...pull your lazy finger out of your butt get off the couch and break out a sweat!...my car looked like cr@p too when i picked it up...sat for those 5 yrs in Phx heat outside...you could bearly make out the color...it was sooooo faded and oxidized..2 days later..it looked like new again..and i have a trophy to show for it now too

928 Go Go Joe · 06-09-2009, 12:52 PM

Everyone of my 928's are complete repaints. Some are better than others. I just mentally adjusted the values down by $3000-$5000 when I made an offer. And you are right repaints all have flaws. Some because of inferior paint prep, some from wear and tear. Sometimes a PO has no choice but to repaint as even factory paint can die due to lack of proper maintenance. These cars are devalued anyway due to the economy and lack of interest from the buying public. It just doesn't make any sense to spend $10-$15k on a factory-ish type repaint. Even then it still won't be as good. I guess the answer is spend big bucks for a pristine example such as what Willhoit or Todd "Low Miler" offer. Even then....who knows?

Joe B.

sonett3 · 06-09-2009, 04:47 PM

It is all in how it is preped,, and in what kind of product you are using if you use a cheaper clear then your out come will be lower. I have painted alot of cars with different product and I have gotten the best out of BASF and Spies Hecker, Standoxs .

tedward515 · 06-10-2009, 03:48 AM

I think you are right in many ways dangler and I agree for the most part. Some cars though just need to be resprayed and short of sending it to the factory or having a pebble beach type paint job, what else are you going to do. I'm no paint expert by any means but I don't think that Porsche had magic paint.
I think part of the reason that Porsche paint jobs and somewhat the condition in general that our cars survive in, is there early life. I would guess that 60% to 70% of 928s spent there first 10 to 15 years garaged and well taken care of. Now does this mean that I think if you had a Chevette of the same vintage and took care of it the same way the Porsche owner did that it would look as good, no. But it wouldn’t look as bad as most Chevettes do or is that did. I haven't seen one in a long time. Maybe I just proved your point, but I digress.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it is completely due to Porsches painting techniques but also how ours cars were likely taken care of in there early life. On the other hand I've seen many Corvettes of the same era as our cars in similar condition. Do I think that Corvettes are made to the same standards? No, it all goes back to I think many of our cars and other "special" and I use that word loosely cars last longer because of extra care they likely got early in there life.

diverdan · diverdan's Garage

Good factory paint even with some minor touch up is the best. Nothing hidden. No one knows what new paint hides. If it is a repaint, older repaint is better, but worth considerably less than original. However these cars are getting old and very few cars will be found with original paint. Even with used Corvettes 30 years ago I always walked away from repainted cars. Perhaps with the Corvettes it was even more critical due to the potential of hidden crazing in the glass or gelcoat.

Dan

Fabio421 · 06-10-2009, 05:39 AM

The only "value" that these cars have is in the enjoyment that they give to the owner. There isn't any resale value to speak of. If you are buying a 928 as an investment you are a fool. You buy a 928 and then you drive the hell out of it. When it makes you smile, that is where the value lies. Jim Bailey has said many times that if you buy a $5,000 car and put $10,000 in parts and labor into it, you will end up with a really nice $5,000 car.

One of my cars is in the process of being painted by a very good painter and 928 enthusiast here in FL, Mark Kuhn. He does exceptional work. The car is being completely disassembled and redone correctly. When I get it back it will be better than when I bought it. I'll be sure to post some pics.

If your factory paint is in great shape. By all means keep it. But more often than not, it isn't in great shape. A quality repaint by a trained professional is something that will transform your car from the ugly duckling back into the beautifull swan that it used to be.

Hold On · 06-10-2009, 10:43 AM

[QUOTE=Fabio421;4713596]The only "value" that these cars have is in the enjoyment that they give to the owner. There isn't any resale value to speak of. If you are buying a 928 as an investment you are a fool. You buy a 928 and then you drive the hell out of it. When it makes you smile, that is where the value lies. Jim Bailey has said many times that if you buy a $5,000 car and put $10,000 in parts and labor into it, you will end up with a really nice $5,000 car.

Ding Ding Ding !!!!! We have a Winner!! I have a beautiful $5K 928S with 12K invested. Do I give a s..t?? Nope. Do I enjoy the car and it makes me grin? Yep.

Did I repaint it (same color) to make myself feel better ?? Dam right I did .

Can`t take your toys with you....so you better enjoy them now ....

...Just my opinion...and I could be wrong

Mrmerlin · 06-12-2009, 04:10 AM

I repainted a 79 5 speed Iris Blue, it was a full strip down as the PO had a quickie done and the paint was peeling off the hood and fenders (done with a razorblade).
Anyhow the new paint finish was in my opinion better than the factory finish, Glassurit was used and then 3 coats of clear..
Also the whole car was zinc chromated and then it had 2 steps of primer sealer then surface sanded the first one was done dry then the second was done wet .
The paint was wet sanded and buffed 2 times. After that you could read a newspaper in the paint. It was truly a show car finish.
It was a lot of work to do

bjenkins · 06-12-2009, 10:29 AM

I would be more than happy to apply the elbow grease necessary to any car to bring back the shine, but I just don't know how to do so properly. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can provide a how-to for the cut and polish or what have you, including products, tools, etc.

Mrmerlin · 10:50 AM

for a paint job that is dirty .
I would suggest a good wash and then clean any tar or other debris with some wax and grease remover.
I would then tape off all the edges/seams with blue painters tape, also all the black trim .
Then with a 3M gray 9in. waffle pad attached to a heavy duty grinder, begin buffing with the 3M extra cut compound ( PN 05936, Its called Perfect- it III, Extra Cut Rubbing Compound).

Grinder/buffer can be purchased at HF and the 3M materials, a gray velcro waffle pad set and compound at the body supply store.
Note the compound is expensive about 50.00 per QT., it will do about 5 cars depending on useage, the buffer/grinder is about 35.00 and the waffle pad set is 22.00 and the velcro adapter for the buffer is 14.00 .
All of this stuff will add up but then you can do the job with the right stuff.
This stuff is like sand when you feel it in your hand, However since the factory paint is very hard it does a nice job of smoothing the surface and cleaning the paint to like new condition.
When your done buffing, wash the car and then go over it with 3M swirl remover. on a clean gray waffle pad.
Then a good quality wax, applied by hand and removed with a clean Gray waffle pad on the buffer
Stay away from the edges on all of the panels with the buffer. no need to burn the paint, ( this is hard to do with the foam pad) I would also stay away from using any of the cloth pads as these can build up a lot of heat and burn the paint

Danglerb · 06-12-2009, 10:46 AM

There is a section here on Pelican about detailing,
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/cleaning-detailing-polishing/
and many forums where detailing is the central topic. My understanding is that learning to use a buffer is kind of a hands on thing, but many vendors do clinics etc.
Meguiars is local to me, so thats the one I plan to attend.
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/

TheStig · 06-12-2009, 11:46 AM

The forums are awesome at Meguiar's. Incredibly informative about detailing too!

Danglerb · 06-13-2009, 02:23 AM

I don't mean to suggest "one size fits all", owning an old 928 often includes a lot of accommodation of reality. Paint it if it needs painting, replace the motor if the PO let the timing belt or thrust bearing go, or spend the $10k fixing all the stuff the last owners didn't, but don't expect a savvy buyer to value it above a nice original car that hasn't and doesn't need those expenses.

tlsmith1999 · 06-16-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american-kiwi

i think that was nicely said...i agree.....at first i hated the color of my cashmere beige 502...i wanted to paint the car soooooo bad!...now...i think if i went to a "928 only" show...i would most likely have the only one there in that color...and most of it is still the original paint...i understand if someone buys a car...and the paint falling off...they'll want to repaint it..otherwise....leave it alone!.....
....i have seen people repaint a car...only cos they were too damn lazy to use some elbow grease..and give it a cut-n-polish..these are there words "ahh the paints f'ed on this...i need to get it painted!"...no...pull your lazy finger out of your butt get off the couch and break out a sweat!...my car looked like cr@p too when i picked it up...sat for those 5 yrs in Phx heat outside...you could bearly make out the color...it was sooooo faded and oxidized..2 days later..it looked like new again..and i have a trophy to show for it now too

That is a fine car! I hope you are planning on bringing it to Dallas this sumer for OCIC.
Here is a picture of my US 78 5SPD at SITM last week. It is the only pic I have here are work today. I would part the car out before I repaint it another color.

american-kiwi · american-kiwi's Garage

Hi tlsmith1999
look at the pic...its the only one there in that color...i love it...nice!!!....you have the darker interior?...mine has the Cork with black-beige pasche ..
.i still need to do things to her before i would take a long trip like that to OCIC or SITM..re:tires etc.
What # is your car?...mine is #267

I need to find a good driver side seat...i have a recaro in there now...i want it back to original...if anyone has a manual (no power ) early round push button drivers seat in cork?...im redoing the pasche...so the inserts dont matter

tlsmith1999 · 06-16-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american-kiwi

Hi tlsmith1999
look at the pic...its the only one there in that color...i love it...nice!!!....you have the darker interior?...mine has the Cork with black-beige pasche ..
.i still need to do things to her before i would take a long trip like that to OCIC or SITM..re:tires etc.
What # is your car?...mine is #267

Mine was all Cork. I replaced the carpets and upper door vinyl with a lighter beige color to give a two-tone effect. I believe my car is #738, it is at home in the garage recovering from the SITM trip. I have found people either love it, or hate it.

tedward515 · 06-16-2009, 04:07 PM

tlsmith1999 I saw your car at SITM last week and loved it, my brother who isn't a big car guy thought I was crazy. I think that it is great that both of you and american kiwi keep that color. I think the colors of the early 928s were so unique and give the car period feel.

911blex · 07:31 PM

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the factory paint on 928s is much more durable than nearly all of the new automotive paints on the market because EPA regulations have forced paint producers to cease using many of the toxic chemicals used in petroleum-based paints (which make the paint very tough and durable), which is why there has been a movement towards water-based paints. Unfortunately, water-based paints are much softer and therefore, chip much more easily. Are there any "paint pros" on this forum that can elaborate on EPA-mandated changes to automotive paints?

american-kiwi · american-kiwi's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedward515

tlsmith1999 I saw your car at SITM last week and loved it, my brother who isn't a big car guy thought I was crazy. I think that it is great that both of you and american kiwi keep that color. I think the colors of the early 928s were so unique and give the car period feel.

Thank you!

911blex :

I think it also has something to do with the undercoat/etch primer these cars used..being alloy and galvanized steel..paint wont "key" to that very well