Educate a 911 owner on a 1983 928 S

pookie · 01:50 PM

There is a 1983 928 S for sale near me that has peaked my interest. I don't know a lot about the 928 or the difference between a 928 and 928 S. I looked on wikipedia and found the 83 928 S as the only model listed for that year. In 82 they have a 928 and a 928 S listed. In 84 they have a 928 S and 928 S2 listed. So is this a one off production year? Any hard to find parts that only this car has and others don't? Any big issues with this model year? The car has aftermarket wheels and 98K miles. Asking price is $7.9K. Anything else I need to know or be aware of before I go look at it?

Thanks

Danglerb · 09-30-2008, 12:38 PM

S in the US means the little rubber spoiler in the rear and a 4.7 vs 4.5 liter motor. S in the Euro means special heads, cams, and intake with 60+ more hp. They have no special parts issues, too many older cars get junked for that.

Only two important questions on a 928:

Do you REALLY with all your heart and soul want a 928?

Is this specific 928 the one you want?

Tons of little details surround those questions, original paint, 5 spd vs auto, older 16v or newer 32v motor, money pit vs turnkey driver, but its best if you answer the first two questions before sweating the details. Unless you plan to part it out, or flip it, price is the worst reason to buy a 928.

surfdog4 · 09-30-2008, 12:44 PM

1) the engine is in the front
2) that boxy thing in front of the engine is called a radiator, and it is full of water

(ok, sorry, but somebody was going to do it)

Based on my experience working on my '81, i dont think any of the 928's are hard to find parts for. and for some things you can get used parts to save $$

some things to think about:

- check if it's a US, Euro, or ROW car..some have dubious histories, and the parts between them can be very different
- 5-speeds are generally more desired than automatics (if you are worrried about resale)
- check all the electricals (there are numerous potential issues, mostly fixable but require work)
- they are prone to vacuum leaks, if you can, poke around in the engine bay to see if the vacuum lines have been replaced or are hard and brittle
- any info on when the timing belt was last changed?
- look for cracks in the radiator on the passenger side just under the large inlet hose (my most recent find)
- you can the shop manuals on CD for about $70, a must have

if you want to check for parts prices, the most convenient are

928intl.com
928srs.com
pelican

Happy Hunting! I'm sure you will get lots of advice with this post

pookie · 09-30-2008, 02:00 PM

Sorry guys I edited my inital post to reflect the asking price. $7.9K

I don't actually have my heart set on a 928. This one is red and while I like the red it's not my favorite color. I like the 928, I want another car, and they somewhat (depending on model) fit into what I would like to spend. I'd like to stay Porsche, and I like the 928 over some of the other models.

I won't consider the car if it isn't a manual. Just don't want an auto in any sports car.

Another log on the fire, how easy/hard are these to work on?

And where are some other good places to look for them for sale? There don't seem to be a lot that pop up here for sale.

Thanks

Fabio421 · 09-30-2008, 02:01 PM

If the VIN contains the digits ZZZ it is a Euro S and is highly desireable due to the higher HP engine. If not it is 234 HP 4.7 L V8 which still scoots pretty well. Is it an Auto or a 5 speed? I suggest driving it for a weekend if possible. Going from a 911 to a 928 is a tough sell if you only jump in for a quick spin around the block. If you get to drive it for a little while you will most likely love it. Post some pics or general condition of the car and we can help you value it a little better.

Good luck

Landseer · 09-30-2008, 02:04 PM

Price is high unless its a very low mileage and a particularly clean specimen in my opinion, with a serious set of maintenance records and little/no work needed.

Fabio421 · 09-30-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pookie

Sorry guys I edited my inital post to reflect the asking price. $7.9K

I don't actually have my heart set on a 928. This one is red and while I like the red it's not my favorite color. I like the 928, I want another car, and they somewhat (depending on model) fit into what I would like to spend. I'd like to stay Porsche, and I like the 928 over some of the other models.

I won't consider the car if it isn't a manual. Just don't want an auto in any sports car.

Another log on the fire, how easy/hard are these to work on?

And where are some other good places to look for them for sale? There don't seem to be a lot that pop up here for sale.

Thanks

I see we are posting at the same time. Its a 5 speed, thats a good thing. As for their difficulty to work on. What is your skill level? I think they are just as easy as anything else. Certain jobs are a PITA and others are easy peazy. It really depends. Overall they are not difficult to work on if you have the work shop manuals available to you.

If you pass on this one, I have an 84 928S for sale for less money. It is mechanically in tip top shape. I would have no problem jumping in it tonight and driving it across country if necessary. It needs paint. The clear coat has been damaged in spots and I tried to touch up the paint in other spots but it didn't quite match. 70,000 miles $5,500

jthwan22 · 09-30-2008, 03:17 PM

$8k is a little high for 1983 with no history. Check ebay out. This is a good time to buy old sports car. When the Dow goes down, people will sell their toys.

Danglerb · 09-30-2008, 03:38 PM

How hard are they to work on is the wrong question, how expensive is the right one.

I bought my 83 5 spd in very nice condition, original paint with just a couple scratches, clean interior including no dash or pod cracks, full service history and set of workshop manuals, but clutch was a little funny with some noise for $3k. A year later I still have a little noise, requiring a new transmission to fix, and have past $10k in other repairs.

OTOH I am having a load of fun working on it and have about $1k in more tools to play with.

95% of the 928's on the market need to be passed over, not because of selling price, but due to deferred maintenance which can make the car a poor value even if it was free. 928's are the finest GT cars ever made, NOBODY sells a really nice one willingly.

kiwiokie · 10-03-2008, 05:22 PM

I just listed my 1982 for sale in the classifieds area. More info can be found at

http://members.cox.net/pacificblue928/index.htm

Cheers, John

pookie · 10-05-2008, 05:19 PM

kiwiokie...I like it but I want a manual. I like the color combo though. Good luck with the sale.

..P · 10-24-2008, 10:11 AM

I have a 1983 928S 5-speed.

I smile every time I fire up the motor, it is one awesome car, loaded with refinement and with PLENTY OF HANDLING AND SPEED.

Don't underestimate the road handling capability of a 928. Driven in spirited fashion, you would be hard pressed to find something that could actually run from a 928 on back roads or in the twisties. On the interstate, yes there are much faster cars today, but the 1983 was THE fastest car sold in North Americal that year, including all turbocharged cars and V12s, you name it. Since I rarely have any occasion to test the 146-mph true speed, it makes no difference to me whether this car can do 160 or 170.

For raw power, you will find any number of other cars today that will out accelerate the 928, and obtain high or higher ultimate speeds. The beauty of the 928 is it's geared for 210-mph at it's 6000 rpm readline, which equates to 2000-rpm at 70-mph. Guys, 2000 rpm at 70 is a beautiful thing, at 80 it's barely breaking a sweat, and sheesh, you can hit 130 in 4th gear if you really want to.

In every day driving I never (ever) have the need to rev anywhere near redline. In other high performance cars I presently own or have owned, I would see redline all the time, but NEVER in the 928. The motor will do it, but power drops off far before, and 4500 to 5000 in any gear is really all you need to break every speed limit with efficient dispatch in the USA.

The 4.7 liter engine is actually a 283 cubic inch device, with belt driven SOHC cams and injection. It's generally detuned to around 230-hp, and that is ONE of the reasons these cars last forever. The blocks are glass lined (way much silicon in the bare aluminum, tough to wear out, in fact I have never heard of one needing a bore job, although I'm sure it's been done and I'm no expert, just an enthusiast).

The manual 5-speed is totally INDUSTRIAL. It is not fast from first to second, so FORGET TRYING. Just shift normally and let the motor do the work, this is not a FIAT, quick shifts won't do that much for you in a 928 but the torque will.

I find it to be a marvelous machine, and the 5-speed makes me feel like I'm driving a musclecar from the 1960s. I have my own Wasserpumper web site, simply as a way to catalog my own info for the 928, 944 and 944 S2 I own. The site gets a few pages read each week, and my main focus in life is Chris Craft Commanders, with a web site that is very active, you can find it at ChrisCraftCommander.com if you are looking for something that gets one mile per gal of gas.

I don't consider my wasserpumper site to be a conflict of interest here, nor is it a competing site, as you will see the activity level is VERY slow. I maintain it simply to share my own database (like I am now), and if someone posts there, fine. If not, that's fine too.

To share info about the 1983 928, here are some direct links showing some of the stuff I have collected, including photos of my 5-speed manual transaxle rebuild. Enjoy it for what it's worth, and hopefully someone will find it of interest or some use.

Regards,

Paul

1983 928S TOTAL DOCUMENTATION
1983 928S Comprehensive Photo Documentation (Photos)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=426130&messageid=1121975514

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=426130&messageid=1125690701

928 TRANSAXLE
928S 5-speed Transaxle Rebuild (Photo Documentary, with diagram scans)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=426130&messageid=1121972820

Transaxle Noise, Gear Lube Recommendation (Photo, link)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=426130&messageid=1125602339

Notice there are no main bearing clips here, but instead, an entire carriage that holds the crankshaft in place. Overengineered by a long shot! Here is an exploded view and a bottom end view, showing a bit about how this awesome V8 motor was designed and built.

It's a far cry from driving a vacuum cleaner, er 911, and the 928 does not have the tendency to want to crash backwards if you lift in a turn. This is one of THE best handling cars I've driven, and having owned a 1974 hot rodded TVR with three Webbers for 30 years, I DO know what good handling is all about. It covers the road fast, in comfort, and without a lot of fuss. Got to love it.

One last thing, the ANSA exhaust was split with a long steel chisle, in order to pull out some of the stainless steel wool

and the sound is intoxicating.

I like the 1983 S cars, because they are not as complicated as some of the later models, you get the basic package, and I think the 83 is a bit easier to own. Could be wrong, but in any case, it's a very rewarding car to own and drive, and as dead reliable as ANYTHING I've ever owned.

Regards, all the best, happy shopping !

Paul
Nashville, TN

.

Danglerb · 10-24-2008, 10:18 AM

Nice car, NICE links.

Walking out right now to take my US 83 Zinc Metallic 5 spd for a drive, its both fun and sensible.

My 85 Euro 5 spd is a beast that I am totally amazed at not being arrested in each time I drive.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

eBay currently has 30 cars listed, Autotrader has 107 ads.......

If you really desire a 928, then go shop so more. A lot more. And a lot more after that......

They are great cars, relatively easy to work on (pre-S4), and will perform well under most any condition.

the price you listed is maybe $3-4K high, depending upon condition and documentation.

A recent good buy was a GT that Louie Ott had (or still has?). A very thorough write up on it (by him) and selling for $14K. And yes, it was a stick car (GT's are).

Good luck with your hunt-

--Russ

..P · 10-27-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Nice car, NICE links.

Walking out right now to take my US 83 Zinc Metallic 5 spd for a drive, its both fun and sensible.

My 85 Euro 5 spd is a beast that I am totally amazed at not being arrested in each time I drive.

I know what you mean. While I love my 1983 S, I am really impressed with the power and speed of the 3.0 944 twin cam 4-valve motor in my 1990 S2, and if that 4 cylinder pulls that hard I can only imagine what the V8 version is like. The 944 S2 by the way, is as fast as the 928, very deceptive and loads of fun to drive. If given the choice, cross country comfort included and relaxed ride, power and handling included, the 928 gets the nod. It can do everything well

I'd love to have a faster one, but I've learned to be content with what I have, and 83 was a very good year! :-)

Regards,

P

.

DanielDudley · 10-27-2008, 09:23 PM

928s are much happier to rev if you uncork the exhaust. 911s are amazing cars with an astounding ability to hook up the back end coming out of a corner. Wider tires especially at the rear of a 928 can give a 928 a similar feel, but the sensual, tactile feel of the 911 is quite different from the neutral stable feel of a 928. 928s are very enjoyable to drive at speed, and set up properly they can be cause your eyes to get very big. They can feel almost slow or ordinary however at speeds that you would find quite exiting in other cars, and so yes, it can be license challenging to own one.

It is probably fair to say that they are not incredibly hard to work on, but they have a lot of systems compared to a 911, and it has been noted that deferred maintenance can be a big issue. Most would consider the post 85 cars, with the borg warner syncronzed gearbox to be more desireable, which means the earlier cars can be a real bargain. Some really amazing drivers can be found in the sub 4,000 category, but generally I recommend spending more up front for a well sorted driver, unless your desire is to have a project. Some really good runners are also cosmetically challenged, but conversely a lot of nice looking 928s can be very needy.

Problems with a 928 can include timing belts needing replacement, water pumps that have been sitting too long, worn syncros, leaking steering racks, vaccume leaks in the engine compartment, vaccume leaks in the HVAC system, general AC ailments and wiring, relay, ground fault issues. New struts and springs can really wake a car up in terms of ride and handling, and are relatively affordable. Ball joints last well, but early aluminum ones on the lower front need to be changed out to avoid fatigue failure. The engines OTOH last almost forever, but can leak oil through the seals or pan gasket, or weep coolant at the head gasket. Motor mounts on later cars are fluid filled, and are often in need of replacing. Clutches can be problematic, but are not too hard to change out, but the parts can be quite expensive, especially if you need a lot of them.

When you take a look at the above list, you can clearly see why a 928 with deferred maintenance issues could be a strong runner, but very needy. A PPI, should always be considered. OTOH, I know a few people who have some really strong runners that did not cost them very much. Being willing to tackle a timing belt or crawl under a 928 can sometimes get you a real bargain in a high performance car. Some of the best deals can be 83-84 automatics, although some will be put off by the lack of a stick. I would prefer a fours peed tranny over the earlier three speed, but they can be formidable cars, and quite a blast to drive.

928S were the flagship of the Porsche line when they were made, and one of the most technically advanced cars of their time. They can be every bit as robust as a 911, but they will never be as simple toi own or maintain. A good one however can be quite simple to keep up. Catch up is another story.

Hope this helps.

bb · 10-30-2008, 07:51 PM

I say stick to the 911's. I sold my 76' 911 2.7L turbo to buy a 83 928. I had gotten bored of working on 911's. My 928 is almost done and if I had to do over again I would never do it again. 928's have many more problems than 911's. Parts are harder to get and twice as expensive.

Stick to 911's

That being said my lime green 928 is going to be sweet when it is finished, and I still have a 996 that I do all the DE's with.

Oscar,
Akron, Ohio

Danglerb · 10-30-2008, 09:31 PM

Why not jump straight to the 944 or 944 turbo, much of the same feel as a 911 IMHO and cheaper still.

928 is what works for me though.

m21sniper · 10-30-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb

I say stick to the 911's. I sold my 76' 911 2.7L turbo to buy a 83 928. I had gotten bored of working on 911's. My 928 is almost done and if I had to do over again I would never do it again. 928's have many more problems than 911's. Parts are harder to get and twice as expensive.

Then again, 928s dont have mandatory valve adjustements, and dont rip head studs out of the block, and don't leak like sieves, as 911's do. And they don't have a hideous interior where you sit with your face inches from the windshield. I really detest early 911 interior layouts.

And let's face it, 928's aren't evolved VW Beetles, like 911's are. I have to be honest, when i see a 911(especially an earlier one), it screams Beetle to me.

Sure, i'd still happily own a 911 turbo, but i'd never buy one.

jthwan22 · 10-31-2008, 05:20 AM

I have both the 911 and 928. The 928 does have more things to worry about. I chase down more leaks in the 928 than the 911. I had trouble with trans, coolant, oil pan leaks in the 928. I woke up with many (pink, orange, green, brown) trail of fulid coming from the 928 than I ever see from the 911. I do like to drive the 928 more. Maybe it is newer to me.