8700 mile 93 GTS is NOT what you'd expect :-(

[chuck z]

http://www.928registry.org/1993-928GTS-0112.htm

I have been staying in touch with a nice couple in Dallas who own a 1993 928 GTS which was owned originally by her brother, author, poet and artist Stan Rice of New Orleans. The car is black on black, a 5-speed and 8700 miles.

The Holy Grail of 928 GTSs? OMG, not even close! Today Sterling G, Sean R and Jim M did a PPI for me on this car. Below is a short list and only some of the things they found wrong with this car:

Here are the notes from the inspection today.

The things that stand out for me are:

Besides being filthy,

- Paint work, sanding scratches in the roof, mis-match color, tape lines in
doors and hatch

- Burn marks in the paint from someone using a high speed buffer and
damaged the paint, hard to say if this is repairable or not? Also burn marks on the rear quarter window trim and overspray on the windsheild trim.

- Sunroof mis-aligned, doesn't close all the way.

- Buffer marks on the window trim, not repairable and would need to be
replaced

- Poor quality install on the aftermarket stereo where wires to other
components were tapped into. 928s have a very complex wiring system and
stereo installers usually cause the most electrical issues in 928s.

- In-op odo/speedo How many miles?????

- Delaminating of the gauge facings, the instrument cluster would need to
be replaced as this in not fixable.

- ABS warning means the Anit-lock brake system has issues and is not
working

- Locking differential warning light means there could be potential issues
with the PSD

- In-operable headlights, they will not raise. Hitting something....

- Passenger window in-op

- hatchback not releasing

- Every wheel is curbed scratched or otherwise messed up.

- Lower front spoiler was torn off the car on the right side.

- 1/4" chip in the left front fender down to the metal.

- Many scratches in the and swirl marks over the entire car.

This inspection was also a visual inspection and didn't look at anything
mechanical and based on the above issues it's reasonable to assume there are
probably a few of those too.

The above list alone is many thousands of dollars to fix.

Sean's comment to me was: "the car looked like it could have 50-60k miles and NOT 8700 miles!"

I will post pics or Sean, Sterling or Jim please feel free.....

[lizard928s]

That is too bad!

On another note, Anne Rice, Stan's wife (ex??) has written a great deal of books and in most of them always mentions a porsche in one form or another. I wonder if this is the car that go her hooked on these cars too?

[Danglerb]

I can see how owning a 928 might help you write about vampires ....

None of that list matters all that much if the mileage can be well documented, 8700 miles makes it valuable, even if it takes $20k to fix it.

[chuck z]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

None of that list matters all that much if the mileage can be well documented, 8700 miles makes it valuable, even if it takes $20k to fix it.

Once you can no longer tout a low mileage car as having ALL it's original paint the value drops significantly no matter how low the miles. Especially when the details of why it was repainted are more than just a little questionable.....

[Danglerb]

From the post it wasn't clear to me the paint damage and respray were so bad, so yes that is a huge hit, but something a shop like Wilhoit could make perfect. I assume he is also in the bidding on this one? (or is now)

BTW the listed vin is only 15 digits, wp0aaz90ps20112.

[SeanR]

With the numbers that the owners are asking, it won't be touched by Wilhoit. The car can be a great one, but when you are talking about a total respray on top of all the mechanicals that need attention. It is going to take a very special buyer to want the project.

Chuck has the PPI report and pictures, and my permission to post what he feels is needed. I'm just the inspector on this one and had high hopes the car was as advertised. The car has sort of been on/off the market due to emotional reasons, and I'm afraid it will be that way for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Danglerb

From the post it wasn't clear to me the paint damage and respray were so bad, so yes that is a huge hit, but something a shop like Wilhoit could make perfect. I assume he is also in the bidding on this one? (or is now)

BTW the listed vin is only 15 digits, wp0aaz90ps20112.

[Danglerb]

Wilhoilt has some very saavy people when it comes to fixing paint without a respray, which doesn't mean this one is worth what they are asking, just that Wilhoit might be willing to bid higher than other people who were perhaps looking to fix and resell.

I am totally missing the appeal on this car anyway, 93 GTS auto and Black on Black, does not float my boat a bit.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I am totally missing the appeal on this car anyway, 93 GTS auto and Black on Black, does not float my boat a bit.

You're not missing anything----except it's a 5-spd, not auto.

Low mileage (if it is actual and true) is the appeal.

Otherwise, it's of no interest to me either, for several reasons:


black with black
'93 (notorious for bad engines)
filthy (?)
headlights don't come up (hitting something)---was this car wrecked at some point(?)


Mmmm......while the three may have given up on just the cosmetics, but not any drivetrain items listed, it's seems to me that a thorough PPI should have been completed...... (maybe they did......and just did not list all that's wrong with it here)


Now, if it was a '95.......that would be a different story.






--Russ

[chuck z]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Wilhoilt has some very saavy people when it comes to fixing paint without a respray, which doesn't mean this one is worth what they are asking, just that Wilhoit might be willing to bid higher than other people who were perhaps looking to fix and resell.

He's good I know, but even he won't be able to make the color match w/o respraying it.....

[chuck z]

Originally Posted by rhjames

Low mileage (if it is actual and true) is the appeal.

black with black
'93 (notorious for bad engines)
filthy (?)
headlights don't come up (hitting something)---was this car wrecked at some point(?)

Mmmm......while the three may have given up on just the cosmetics, but not any drivetrain items listed, it's seems to me that a thorough PPI should have been completed...... (maybe they did......and just did not list all that's wrong with it here)
--Russ

The PPI didn't get far enough to warrant looking at anything mechanical..... It became pretty obvious early on that this car has a much longer story than is being told by the sellers... mileage? damage history? butchered wiring? Overall cosmetics?

Having actually had a 93 GTS I'm not sure I put as much credibility to the "notorious for bad engines" comment?

[928sg]

we didn't have time for the PPI as the owner was hovering and in some ways distracting us from a more thorough look. We got to a point where we felt that Chuck may not have been interested so we let the owner go. The only thing that woudl make the engine unreliable in my opinion was that it was an early 93 so it had the rods that have issues. The car was seriously neglected cosmetically, and they were asking crazy money for it.

Between Jim, Sean & I we gave it a pretty good look over. That was all that was asked for. For a true PPI we would have had to have several hours and do compression checks and other in depth testing. We were there to primarily make sure that the car was as represented over the phone and email. It was not. End of story.

[Danglerb]

I've never seen Wilhoit's work first hand, but I am pretty sure I have heard about cars with known paint damage that he later sold without a trace of imperfection. Its pretty amazing what a really good detail guy can do. I've seen Porsche's where a 1/4 panel has been resprayed and even the orange peel matches the rest of the car.

Enigma of the low mileage car, very good chance all sorts of seals and hoses are bad, maybe the coolant has turned acid and eaten away the heads etc., but to retain the value of the low miles it can't be driven much and it might take a few thousand miles of normal usage for all the troubles to start showing up.

Low mileage aren't usually time capsules, carefully preserved with the showroom air still sealed in. Mostly they are set aside due to problems, simply parked and neglected. Not my cup of tea.

[Charley B]

Originally Posted by rhjames

black with black...............................'93 (notorious for bad engines).......................................... .........................Now, if it was a '95.......that would be a different story. --Russ

Another unfounded rumor. Smaller con rods than subsequent, but no evidence of failure due to the rods themselves.

[Danglerb]

I've seen one of the 93 rods bent in the shape of an S.

[Charley B]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I've seen one of the 93 rods bent in the shape of an S.

I don't doubt your observation. I've seen rods of all sorts bent and broken. The question is, what was going on in that engine when the rod bent?
Events such as hydro locking will bend any rod. If we condemn all types of rods that have been bent, there will be no rods left.

[Danglerb]

Porsche changed the rod design, and replaced early rods under warranty, thats plenty to convince me. How do you enjoy a car like a 928 if you have the slightest apprehension about the motor?