connecting rods---

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

got my new rods today--

4340 H-beam

good for 1200 hp and 8500 rpms

clearanced for stroker motors

(stock rod on left in pic for comparison)

--Russ

Fabio421 · 11-21-2008, 04:51 AM

Whats the weight of the two?

N2O-SHARK · 11-21-2008, 05:23 AM

Dare I ask how much?

Nice! How much shorter is it and what size stroke are you increasing to? Gotta see this build!

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

haven't weighed them, but the new rods feel lighter....I'll get them on a scale later today.

they were stupidly inexpensive-

others are using titanium rods, but a near $2000 a set, it's pretty much a waste of money given the minor gains achieved. if you were twisting it to 10,000 rpms, the added expense would be justified, but that's not what anyone is doing with their strokers.

as to rotating dims....suffice to say it'll be pretty big, a lot bigger than what's been discussed here and other places. it will really depend upon what my liner supplier can do with liner thicknesses. they are being conservative with their dims, and I am pushing the limits, so to speak. there is only so much room in the lower block, so how big you can really go has it's limits.

of course, if someone would make a longer timing belt or a gear drive, that would change the landscape drastically.

(put a 1/2 inch deck spacer on each side and use a really long rod, add another 1/2 inch of stroke (over what I'm building), and up the cubes significantly--545 cubes--I know, one can only dream about that----)

Won't have a crank until sometime next year given Moldex production schedule.

Pistons, liners, and block work will probably come along during the winter.

sad thing is, my last BBC build cost me 1/3 of what this one will cost and produced 1000hp and 850 ft lbs torque......the 928 engine won't even get close to that without a blower of some sort.

--Russ

Danglerb · 11-21-2008, 07:44 AM

In the Mustang world pretty sure Procomp is the Chinese source for "remarkably similar" products. Some early quality issues, pourous aluminum castings for intakes, but as long as the direct vendor stands behind them many have had good success with them.

Seems like a LOT of internal work, why keep the Porsche block?

sonett3 · 11-21-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhjames

haven't weighed them, but the new rods feel lighter....I'll get them on a scale later today.

they were stupidly inexpensive-

others are using titanium rods, but a near $2000 a set, it's pretty much a waste of money given the minor gains achieved. if you were twisting it to 10,000 rpms, the added expense would be justified, but that's not what anyone is doing with their strokers.

as to rotating dims....suffice to say it'll be pretty big, a lot bigger than what's been discussed here and other places. it will really depend upon what my liner supplier can do with liner thicknesses. they are being conservative with their dims, and I am pushing the limits, so to speak. there is only so much room in the lower block, so how big you can really go has it's limits.

of course, if someone would make a longer timing belt or a gear drive, that would change the landscape drastically.

(put a 1/2 inch deck spacer on each side and use a really long rod, add another 1/2 inch of stroke (over what I'm building), and up the cubes significantly--545 cubes--I know, one can only dream about that----)

Won't have a crank until sometime next year given Moldex production schedule.

Pistons, liners, and block work will probably come along during the winter.

sad thing is, my last BBC build cost me 1/3 of what this one will cost and produced 1000hp and 850 ft lbs torque......the 928 engine won't even get close to that without a blower of some sort.

--Russ

Hey twin turbo that thing.

928sg · 11-21-2008, 09:44 AM

Russ,
Since you haven't seen your crank yet you may later understand the choice for Ti Rods..... on my 1st stroker build I was quoted 1200 for balancing due to the short counterweights for clearing the pistons and the amount of mallory they had to ad was stupid.... so we externally balanced on the flywheel and a custom stainless fluid filled balancer.....

On my 2nd build I spent $2600 on Oliver Ti rods and only spent 250 on balancing on the same crank and nearly same pistons. so if you have to spend 1000 to 1200 on rods and another 1200 for balancing, you are at 2400.... so it really only "cost" me 450 more for Ti Rods..... and to me it was worth it.... between the weight in rods, the metal welded to the old flywheel, and the difference between the stainless balancer and going back to stock I shaved 31 lbs off the rotating assembly.....

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danglerb

In the Mustang world pretty sure Procomp is the Chinese source for "remarkably similar" products. Some early quality issues, pourous aluminum castings for intakes, but as long as the direct vendor stands behind them many have had good success with them.

Seems like a LOT of internal work, why keep the Porsche block?

I have Pro Comp rods in the 540 BBC Quick 32 car. No issues and no tear down in two years. It's due for tear down this winter. I don't like to go anymore than two seasons without an inspection at the very least. Considering it's consistency, I doubt we'll find much out of place.....

Why stay with the original block? Because I don't want to go through the hassle of cutting up the car. If I go with a domestic engine (not that I would), I'll just buy another late '60s Super Stock Mopar. It would not be a simple Renegade conversion for me, but a total removal of the entire drive train, thus making it a non-928......drop in a big block, back half the car...next thing you know I've got another quick 32 car. No thanks....one's enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonett3

Hey twin turbo that thing.

Maybe.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 928sg

Russ,
Since you haven't seen your crank yet you may later understand the choice for Ti Rods..... on my 1st stroker build I was quoted 1200 for balancing due to the short counterweights for clearing the pistons and the amount of mallory they had to ad was stupid.... so we externally balanced on the flywheel and a custom stainless fluid filled balancer.....

On my 2nd build I spent $2600 on Oliver Ti rods and only spent 250 on balancing on the same crank and nearly same pistons. so if you have to spend 1000 to 1200 on rods and another 1200 for balancing, you are at 2400.... so it really only "cost" me 450 more for Ti Rods..... and to me it was worth it.... between the weight in rods, the metal welded to the old flywheel, and the difference between the stainless balancer and going back to stock I shaved 31 lbs off the rotating assembly.....

I am well aware of your build(s), choice of materials, and costs.

There are many factors for choosing a certain product. Cost was really not the issue, just one of many issues.

--Russ

928sg · 11-21-2008, 01:20 PM

actually it was about cost... if I spent $450 I could shave 31 lbs from the rotating assembly...... if I kept the 450 I would have had 31 lbs more weight.... that is probably the best 450 I've spent on my 928 in over a decade....

but aparently I don't know anything about building 928 stroker engines...

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

probably.....but my build is not the same as others----- not quite the same comparison.....not the same machine shop, not the same parts, not the same dimensions.....blah, blah, blah.....

--Russ

Barbapapa · 11-21-2008, 02:15 PM

Russ, if you can supply Moldex the bobweight, they can supply it balanced

. That would be nice. I don't know if they would add more material or what. I do know that my Moldex crank required very little material removal to balance to Ti rods, if they were steel it would have been an ordeal. Next time I'll give them a bobweight first.

I look forward to hearing about your build!

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbapapa

Russ, if you can supply Moldex the bobweight, they can supply it balanced

. That would be nice. I don't know if they would add more material or what. I do know that my Moldex crank required very little material removal to balance to Ti rods, if they were steel it would have been an ordeal. Next time I'll give them a bobweight first.

I look forward to hearing about your build!

excellent suggestion---I haven't placed an order yet, so I'll be in touch with them about keeping things "simple".

just taking my time about--no hurry.

--Russ

928sg · 11-21-2008, 07:08 PM

also tell them the piston specs with the rod ratio and they will tell you the counterweights won't clear....

good luck mocking it up and getting it balanced.....

Danglerb · 11-22-2008, 03:49 PM

This isn't the first Rodeo for Russ. I am damn glad anybody tries anything, despite any "your doomed" attitude I may appear to share.

OTOH almost anything new I suspect only has about a 50/50 chance of working as planned.

Its hard to argue with what is possible cheaply using a domestic small block, but few owners seem to stay on a cheap path long, so no wonder the engines aren't cheap projects.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danglerb

This isn't the first Rodeo for Russ. I am damn glad anybody tries anything, despite any "your doomed" attitude I may appear to share.

OTOH almost anything new I suspect only has about a 50/50 chance of working as planned.

Its hard to argue with what is possible cheaply using a domestic small block, but few owners seem to stay on a cheap path long, so no wonder the engines aren't cheap projects.

unfortunately, the doomsday attitude is overly present with many subjects concerning our 928's........

it's just like any other engine......it has limits.

several folks are proving every day that the 928 bottom end is stout enough to handle upwards of 1000hp without fancy cranks, rods, or pistons. However, in the quest for cubic inches, you have to get somewhat exotic.....

it's just like the conversation I had with Dave Lomas, the bigger you get, the more stress it puts somewhere else (he's got one that's doing better than 650 at the wheels, and will blow the tires off of it at 70 MPH + in 2nd gear)----clutches, trans axles, tires, ad nauseum. Even he is talking about doing a 7 speed in one of his rides. Frankly, I'd like to mate up a Lenco or Liberty tranny to the rear case, but that's for another day's bench racing......

you're right Mike....not my first rodeo----or engine build.

--Russ

928sg · 11-23-2008, 02:07 PM

geez I'm not trying to be a naysayer... just trying to help save you some money. so from now on, I'll keep my mouth shut and let you spend away. enjoy.

N2O-SHARK · 11-23-2008, 03:36 PM

Take good notes and share when done. Since I have an OB, I can't use sharktuner to find that lost 80hp. My next step is more displacement or Turbos.

DanielDudley · 11-24-2008, 04:48 AM

I work with a lot of carpenters. I also run the company. In the end, people want to try their ideas, and build on their experiences.

I am often not surprized by what people can't do, but I am more frequently surprized at what they can.

rich · rich's Garage

I like the can-do additude. That's where I live everyday! It's nice to read the experiences others have had in trying to achive the status of a Stroker. Sounds like the pre planning with the crank ballance could pay off in some serious cash saving when the rotating assembly goes to the balancer. We can all learn something from thinking outside the box a little more everyday. I'm pulling for ya Russ. Make it work!

N2O-SHARK · 11-24-2008, 10:43 AM

I like the spending Russ' time and $$ to figure out a cheaper stroker..

Then we all benefit and owe him lunch.

There has to be a cheaper way to build a stroker than the $20K figures the guys in the know throw out.

I still think chevy pistons are the way to go. Couldn't there be a way to cost the pistons instead of the block. Seems it would be cheaper to coat 8 pistons to work in our aluminium engines than to nicosil the whole block.