what should you watch for in a high mileage 928?

[bet]

hey all,

am looking at buying an '89 928 S4 here in New England and could use a little help: Very nice car, white/black, auto, but has about 160k.

First, how do the engines/trannys on these cars hold up with that kind of mileage? (I am assuming at this point that there hasn't been any major internal work done, the person selling has not had the car for that long, and have I not gotten to take a look at the records yet). I know these cars are refined cruisers, but not sure how that translates into durability.

Also, what are upkeep costs like on these cars? I have a reasonably modest budget and want to be realistic about what I'm getting into. I know there is a strong aftermarket parts supply, is it safe to say you can pretty much avoid the dealer at this point on these cars? Any thoughts for the newbie are greatly appreciated!

[Danglerb]

Dealer service on a Porsche, any Porsche, is insanity, but add to the high prices etc. that most dealers rarely see a 928, so unlikely any mechanic there knows them very well.

High mileage directly effects resale value, but condition varies way to much to be tied to mileage. The only reliable way to find condition is with a thorough inspection by someone that has LOTS of experience with a 928. Specifically the motor and tranny rarely "wear" out, even high mileage cars may have little internal wear.

Whats a reasonably modest budget? and why would you be thinking about an old Porsche?

How much of a mechanic are you? A good place to work on a car, and a second car to drive if repairs take a few weeks?

[SolReaver]

Talk to a 928 owner. Unless you are a mechanically inclined and have a few grand extra for parts, you might be better off with a different car. These cars CAN be very dependable if they are properly maintained and the engines and transmissions are very durable.

[DanielDudley]

I don't know what part of NE you are in, but there are some pretty knowledgeable 928 owners in MA and NH who might be able to look the car over for you. Finding a good 928 mechanic is the first step, as having a pre purchase inspection is pretty important.

A maintenance history is critical, as a timing belt failure means a full valve job. You should also be checking up on some of the other posts here, as people ask this question on a pretty regular basis, as someone did just yesterday morning.

Go over to Rennlist,and read the FAQ at the top of the 928 forum.

[Xlot]

Originally Posted by bet

Also, what are upkeep costs like on these cars? I have a reasonably modest budget and want to be realistic about what I'm getting into. I know there is a strong aftermarket parts supply, is it safe to say you can pretty much avoid the dealer at this point on these cars? Any thoughts for the newbie are greatly appreciated!

160k miles isn't much on a 928 that's had regular servicing and the required major services done.

However, if you don't do your own wrenching, the maintenance and upkeep to get it running nicely will be prohibitive.

At the cheap end, timing belt job is around $1100, up to $2k if the car needs new cam gears, oil pump gear/seal and tensioner rebuild (cam gears and oil pump gear are probably in need of replacement by 160k - mine were all worn at 150k miles).

If the intake is all original and unremoved, chances are you'll need new sensors, gaskets and vac lines - factor in about 10-15 workshop hours and $1.5k in parts depending on how much needs replacing (could be more).

Much as I love my 928 (am shopping slowly for a second one), I couldn't in all conscience recommend one to someone who was going to pay a workshop to do the work, unless dropping $10k in bills wasn't scary. The sad fact is that any work you pay or do yourself isn't going to add value to the car.

If on the other hand you'll be keeping a daily driver, and are willing to learn to wrench, then go for it - lots of support here and from local 928'ers in many parts, and these cars are beautifully made.

[rhjames]

records are essential. if not, walk away or be faced with several major things to do before driving it.

TB/H2o pump
release the thrust bearing tension
hydraulic fluid changeout (brakes)
renew the intake and vacuum hoses

....the list goes on.









--Russ

[Dean_Fuller]

If you can find out which dealership the car may of been serviced at they can supply all the maintenance records they have with the VIN. I got tons of records on mine that way that the PO did not have. Paint , body work and interior repair is more $$$$ than the mechanics. Electrical can be $$ as well. If you are willing to do repairs yourself ( I think most can but for some reason too afraid ) its not too bad....Once the maintenance is up to date then 1 to 2K a year will most likely keep it there....and cars being what they are now days you can have a new compact with payments totaling more than that a year and watch the resale fall like a rock where as this will most likely retain its valve if kept nice.

[talane]

Everyone has said what I have experienced. I bought the 86 928 without records and drove it home. Took it to the shop to have it looked over (something didnt feel right) an dit's been there about a month and I am 5k into it now. Hopefully I get it back next week. Timing Belt, Ignition wires Injector Leak, vacuum lines, gaskets, Power steering leak, all belts changed all fluids flushed, brakes etc...Get the idea. Listen to these guys. I wish I had.

[Danglerb]

Records are nice, good for a warm fuzzy feeling, and I have spent many hours flipping through the pile I have for my 83.

Other than confirming mileage they don't mean squat unless they include a warranty that transfers to the next owner.

Most cars all the recent work would be the first place I would want to check on the PPI. New tires, better carefully check the alignment and suspension for problems, etc. New or rebuilt engine is my favorite, right so you bought a new motor from Porsche, or Larry's auto wrecking? Rebuilt engine "technically" could mean ONE new part, like a spark plug or a gasket.

I hate to say it, but that first $5k service is the one you really should do yourself. All the tasks are the easiest most well documented repairs the 928 has. The next $5k service is the one the shop might be best at doing, lots of lift work and more complex trouble shooting.

*****

High mileage or low mileage I want to see the same thing, clear evidence of a reasonable amount of driving in the last two years ideally by a demanding, lets NOTHING go Porsche driver. Think about what you would not tolerate having substandard on a daily driver, or serious weekend fun car, and if any of those or enough of them aren't working or working subpar, the owner was letting it slide.

[Dean_Fuller]

What he said ^^^ too

[bet]

Thanks for all the replies! To answer some of the earlier posts (in no specific order): I an in CT, just outside of Stamford, and across the border from Westchester county. Have only had a few offhand suggestions for mechanics, so any recommendations would be appreciated.
As far as my own mechanical experience, I have done a bit of things: exhaust, sensors, tune ups, cooling system work, a lot of suspension and brakes, some electrical. Don't really deal with internal engine work, transmissions.
Checked with the owner and he does not have records. This is a bit of a surprise, because the car is really in fantastic shape, and I know he purchased from a private owner, so this does raise some serious concerns. Will see if there is any resolution to this, if not I will certainly consider just walking, seems to be a real buyers market right now, no?

[Danglerb]

Sounds like a flip, buy cheap, give it a detail, and sell the shine at top market prices.

An old 928 without a PPI could look great, run great, and have $10k in repairs that should be done right away.