"Euro" cars

[jjflash]

Hi,

How does one recognize and/or verify that an '85-'86 32-valve car is the higher-HP "European" version?

And is it true that getting such a car registered in California for the first time is a real headache? I seem to have gotten that impression reading here, but I wanted to make sure I'm understanding that point correctly: if it's been previously registered in California it's OK, otherwise can be a nightmare?

TIA.

[Xlot]

The '85 Euro is a 16V engine that uses LH Jetronic fuel injection (same injection as the US 32V). Pretty easy to spot.

The '85 32V was only sold in the US (to meet emissions standards).

In '86, most of Europe still had the S2 16V 310hp 4.7L engine, but with the suspension found on the S4.

Japan and Australia both got the '86 32V engine, along with S4 suspension for all of model year '86 (same specs as are known as 86.5 in US). Australian 928's are RHD, so easy to tell apart from US ones. Japanese 928s are mostly LHD (quirk of Japan - they prefer to buy their european sports cars with the steering wheel on the same side as the home country).

So, very high odds are the 32V engine you're looking at from '85/'86 is a US/Canada car.

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Xlot

The '85 Euro is a 16V engine that uses LH Jetronic fuel injection (same injection as the US 32V). Pretty easy to spot.

The '85 32V was only sold in the US (to meet emissions standards).

In '86, most of Europe still had the S2 16V 310hp 4.7L engine, but with the suspension found on the S4.

Japan and Australia both got the '86 32V engine, along with S4 suspension for all of model year '86 (same specs as are known as 86.5 in US). Australian 928's are RHD, so easy to tell apart from US ones. Japanese 928s are mostly LHD (quirk of Japan - they prefer to buy their european sports cars with the steering wheel on the same side as the home country).

So, very high odds are the 32V engine you're looking at from '85/'86 is a US/Canada car.

Thanks very much for the clarification.

[Danglerb]

I've also seen a Euro 85/86 "smog" 32v motor as sold in some areas outside of the US, but its actually less compression and HP than the US 85/86.

The catch with Calif is that unless the car was previously registered in Calif, EPA if it recognizes any of the federalizing, only considers it a 49 state legal import. Usually what they want is to have the car re federalized by a Calif approved importer, which can run $10k easily and unpredictably.

A possible loophole are active duty military who have the car registered in another state and are transferred to Calif, but I don't know if that would make the car possible for them to sell or anybody else to register.

Other ways may be possible, but I haven't seen anybody actually do anything legal that works.

[Xlot]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I've also seen a Euro 85/86 "smog" 32v motor as sold in some areas outside of the US, but its actually less compression and HP than the US 85/86.

Yep, the "smog" motor you refer to is the 32V '86 engine for Australia and Japan and a few other locations (Switzerland possibly?) - it is indeed lower compression than the US one.

Means that a hybrid S4 heads on RoW '86 5.0L block comes out with around 10.8:1 compression. One of the guys here in Australia has a track car with that setup.

I have one of the non-US 32V engines sitting in my garage in the corner - been meaning to dismantle it for a while now to get the cams modified for one of my S4's, and to measure wall thicknesses etc. on the block. I need motivation to do it tho', instead of the jobs on my cars that I've got on the list.

[Mrmerlin]

for verification of the higher HP motor you should find
M28/22 for the 84-86 Euro S with the auto
M28/21 for the 84-86 Euro S with the 5 speed.
This info is on the front top of the motor under the top rad hose about 2 in in front of the hose clamp and 2 inches down under the hose. also there will be a engine serial number under the M28/_ _ number

for the 85- -86 32 valve engines these are USA cars and will have
M28/44 for the USA 928s auto
M28/43 for the USA 928s 5 speed

You can print off an engine chart at www.928gt.com find page 2 and then find tips and links go to the engine chart and print one off

[Normy]

An easy way to tell the "Euro" 2-valve engine from its US cousin is by the distributor. A US model has a single distributor with 8 leads. The "Euro" or ROW cars had two 944 distributors. This is because these 2 valves used the same ignition system that the 4 valve cars had, and this system [EZF] requires two.

N

[Mrmerlin]

the twin dizzy cars are only for 1984 and 1986 this is for the early LH system that effectively made the motor 2 4 cylinder systems
All of the earlier Euros have a single distributor

[Danglerb]

Twin dizzy is Euro 84/86.

[Fabio421]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Twin dizzy is Euro 84/86.

For the 16v yes, but the 32v Euro smog motors had the seperate twin dizzy's on the cam covers. Those are so rare and for the most part undesireable that I doubt any were imported to the US. I don't really see the point in importing a car w/ crappier #'s than the ones you can buy locally. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

[michael allman]

I have a 85 row with 32 valves came from the Mid East , sport seats , so I don't think all were 16 valve.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by michael allman

I have a 85 row with 32 valves came from the Mid East , sport seats , so I don't think all were 16 valve.

That is true. The S2 was the standard 928S in '84-'86 outside the USA, but Porsche offered the 4 valve motor mit katalysator for those in the world who wanted it [This is NOT an S2, though the body was exactly the same] The versions of this motor for certain countries had lower compression, and as such a little less power. I have a German-language brochure at home for the '86 928, but I'm not home and I cannot remember if it mentions this variant. I think I read on one of the web forums that the versions for sale in Germany with 4 valves indeed made the same horsepower as the US cars, 288 hp. You need to lift up the carpet in your hatch, look at the white sticker, and tell us the country code. It is in the "options" field, and starts with the letter "C".

N

[EIPtuningR32]

Originally Posted by jjflash

Hi,

How does one recognize and/or verify that an '85-'86 32-valve car is the higher-HP "European" version?

And is it true that getting such a car registered in California for the first time is a real headache? I seem to have gotten that impression reading here, but I wanted to make sure I'm understanding that point correctly: if it's been previously registered in California it's OK, otherwise can be a nightmare?

TIA.

dont they gave a zzz in thte VIN?

[rhjames]

aside from the weird detuned smog 32V Euro's.......982GT has a pretty good guide as to what's Euro/ROW and what's not--

basically.....

78-82 there is a 4.5L 16V Euro engine>>>> 229HP (KJet injection w/single distributor)

80-83 there is a 4.7L 16V Euro engine>>>> 300HP (KJet injection w/single distributor)

84-86 there is a 4.7L 16V Euro engine>>>> 310HP (LJet injection w/twin distributors)

engine stamping numbers are listed on the 928GT website.

word of caution:

with time, some of these engines (and their parts) have been exchanged for US spec engines/parts. if you suspect that you don't have the correct Euro engine/parts, you should confirm block stamping numbers--head, cam, intake, and throttle body casting numbers.

as to VIN numbers, yes, the ZZZ appeared after 82 if memory serves me correctly.

as to the car itself, you will find side front fender turn signals (behind the front wheel well), rear fog lights (right rear side for RHD--left rear side for LHD), Euro front fog lights, and instrument clusters/gauges/HVAC controller written in German/metric (there are exceptions to this). Euro's that were Federalized for import into the US typically had the KPH speedo changed out for a MPH gauge, crash/side impact bars installed in the doors, and side marker lamps installed front and rear (some didn't get fronts, most got both), and CATs---there are exceptions to all of this as well, depending upon the company/person doing the Federalization........

--Russ

[EIPtuningR32]

Originally Posted by rhjames

as to VIN numbers, yes, the ZZZ appeared after 82 if memory serves me correctly.


--Russ

i think its 82 and on cause my euro '82 has ZZZ in it

[Normy]

Originally Posted by rhjames

aside from the weird detuned smog 32V Euro's.......982GT has a pretty good guide as to what's Euro/ROW and what's not--

basically.....

78-82 there is a 4.5L 16V Euro engine>>>> 229HP (KJet injection w/single distributor)

80-83 there is a 4.7L 16V Euro engine>>>> 300HP (KJet injection w/single distributor)

84-86 there is a 4.7L 16V Euro engine>>>> 310HP (LJet injection w/twin distributors)

engine stamping numbers are listed on the 928GT website.

word of caution:

with time, some of these engines (and their parts) have been exchanged for US spec engines/parts. if you suspect that you don't have the correct Euro engine/parts, you should confirm block stamping numbers--head, cam, intake, and throttle body casting numbers.

as to VIN numbers, yes, the ZZZ appeared after 82 if memory serves me correctly.

as to the car itself, you will find side front fender turn signals (behind the front wheel well), rear fog lights (right rear side for RHD--left rear side for LHD), Euro front fog lights, and instrument clusters/gauges/HVAC controller written in German/metric (there are exceptions to this). Euro's that were Federalized for import into the US typically had the KPH speedo changed out for a MPH gauge, crash/side impact bars installed in the doors, and side marker lamps installed front and rear (some didn't get fronts, most got both), and CATs---there are exceptions to all of this as well, depending upon the company/person doing the Federalization........

--Russ

I'll add this just for clarity:

"Kjet" means Bosch K-jetronic, for "kontinurlik" or "continuous". This is Bosch mechanical fuel injection, with variable continuous flow. A flap in the air stream into the engine opens and closes a valve that controls how much fuel enters the engine. It is NOT electronic fuel injection.

"Ljet" was used on the '81- '84 Porsche 928. This system used the "flappy" airbox, which means that the movement of a flap in the airbox told the computer how much fuel to add.

"LH jet" is modified Ljet to include an air measuring device called a Mass Airflow Sensor, or MAF. Instead of measuring volume of air, as the Ljet does, this system measures the mass of the air. The result is that it is able to provide the same ultimate horsepower as the lesser L-jet system...but produce far less emmissions and better fuel mileage at cruise.

-That is what fuel injection is for!

N!

[Xlot]

Originally Posted by Fabio421

For the 16v yes, but the 32v Euro smog motors had the seperate twin dizzy's on the cam covers. Those are so rare and for the most part undesireable that I doubt any were imported to the US. I don't really see the point in importing a car w/ crappier #'s than the ones you can buy locally. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

Depends on your goal.. the smog motor 32V's in 86 have 9.3 compression ratio, unlike the US variant's 10:1. If you're considering boosting, they're a lot more interesting. That and they all non-US 86's (including the 16V cars) have S4 suspension, brakes etc. unlike the US where that was only introduced later in the '86 year.

[Danglerb]

My guess is that the smog motor imports to the US were by people who saw a cheap price and didn't read the fine print. The one I ran across was getting a Chevy conversion at Black Forest Racing, and I was talking to the owners dad about buying the motor. Total confusion since the owner didn't really look at the motor very closely, didn't have the motor ID, but was sure it was a Euro and 32v. He didn't take the news too well that his "special" 32v Euro was lower hp and fairly worthless once removed from car it came in.

If I had a Euro 32v smog motor, or one dropped in my lap cheap, I could see trying some things with it, but its not something I would look for as a project.

Anybody know if they had funky heads or normal?