Haronic balancer loose & new 928 owner

911Jarle · 10-10-2010, 12:09 AM

Hello guys!

Wanted to introduce myself, and then ask a couple questions.

I'm 36 years old, live in Norway and have owned a bunch of different cars.

5 Maseraties, Lamborghini Espada, Lancia Integrales, BMW 850, RS2, Porsche 911 and now a 928.

My current cars is the 911,928 and a Maserati 2.24v I mostly use for the track.
I am posting a bit on the 911 part of this forum as well.

The 928 was bought because I've always wanted one, and it was also sold for a good price. I also enjoy mechanical projects, where I can learn what makes different cars tick.

It drives just great, though some issues that needs to be taken care of.
One beeing a complete service, cambelt, belts, filters, oil and so on.
Then also a sound, which I have found to be the harmonic balancer.
The harmonic balancer is loose on the crank, it can be twisted\turned on the crank when the engine is not running. Guide pins broken or something?
There is also a slight tick from the valves, but beeing hydraulic(?) this might be normal. Oil change will perhaps help.

The Cambelt job I will start this winter. May I ask how many hours one usually spend on that job?

Looking forward to spend some time on the 928, and also on this part of the forum.

Have a nice day everyone...

Cheers, Jarle

Landseer · 10-10-2010, 02:28 AM

The harmonic balancer is indexed to the shaft with a key and should not turn.

What year is the 928? 16 or 32v?

The cam belt job should be done slowly / methodically. I suspect you will have the car indoors for an extended time in winter? Allocate 3 or 4 days of work / cleaning, longer if you will wait for parts delivery.

Be sure to research water pump situation / improvements as there are some major issues that emerged with rebuilt ones. You should join / spend time on rennlist.com as well, as much technical depth exists there on the 928 board.

Mrmerlin · 10-10-2010, 04:38 AM

if you can turn the damper then you need a new part,
the damper is a 2 piece unit that made into one.
Its secured to the inner part with vulcanized rubber to absorb vibration, the inner portion of the damper is secured to the crank with the bolt and indexed with the woodruff key,
it is not uncommon for the damper to fail and be able to be turned .

You now dont have any way to get the engine to TDC unless you use the cams for this.

Note when looking at the engine the damper should be able to be read .

You can set the engine crank close to TDC by following this,
when the engine is at TDC (both cam marks lining up) and your facing the engine then the woodruff keyway will point to the 4 O clock position , if the engine is a 32 valve then you would want the engine at 45 deg BTDC this will make the keyway line up at the 3 O clock position

911Jarle · 10-10-2010, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landseer

The harmonic balancer is indexed to the shaft with a key and should not turn.

What year is the 928? 16 or 32v?

The cam belt job should be done slowly / methodically. I suspect you will have the car indoors for an extended time in winter? Allocate 3 or 4 days of work / cleaning, longer if you will wait for parts delivery.

Be sure to research water pump situation / improvements as there are some major issues that emerged with rebuilt ones. You should join / spend time on rennlist.com as well, as much technical depth exists there on the 928 board.

Hey!

The cambelt job, seems to be a bit of work. Then again, changed timing chains on my V12 espada, and removed, disassembled and assembled my Maserati engines several times at home in my garage. The 928 shouldn't be any worse to work on than these cars I guess?

The 928 will be in my home workshop most of the winter I think.

I will change waterpump during the service as you say, Pelican is perhaps a good place to start when buying that part then?

Will log into rennlist. Thanks for the tip.

Cheers, Jarle

911Jarle · 10-10-2010, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911Jarle

Hey!

The cambelt job, seems to be a bit of work. Then again, changed timing chains on my V12 espada, and removed, disassembled and assembled my Maserati engines several times at home in my garage. The 928 shouldn't be any worse to work on than these cars I guess?

The 928 will be in my home workshop most of the winter I think.

I will change waterpump during the service as you say, Pelican is perhaps a good place to start when buying that part then?

Will log into rennlist. Thanks for the tip.

Cheers, Jarle

I forgot.. 1981 928, 4.5 16v.

Cheers, Jarle

Landseer · 10-10-2010, 07:01 AM

Well, you must read carefully of course what MrMerlin says.
I would do more research before deciding a source for parts, as the body of knowledge of these things is central more to rennlist for 928. Pelican is very reliable, too, but may be stronger with 911 support and may or may not have the upgraded parts such as water pump. Just reearch it.

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

Hej Jarle

I'm from Denmark, and I get most of my parts from Porscheshop | Porsche Parts & Spares, Porsche Performance; Porsche Design Accessories, Porsche Servicing Car Sales UK Porsche Teile, Porsche Parts And Servicing Birmingham West Midlands, they ship fast via UPS, and are very reasonable.

The only things they don't have are the parts for rebuilding the tensioner - got that from 928intl.com, a job that has to be done!

Venlig hilsen
Niels.

Landseer · 10-10-2010, 10:32 AM

You want to be extremely careful exactly what waterpump you get.
They probably won't have it.

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

I got my WP from Porscheshop, and it is excellent.

Mrmerlin · 10-10-2010, 12:24 PM

you might consider Roger for parts he sells new Laso water pumps that are fresh not rebuilt

911Jarle · 10-10-2010, 01:00 PM

Thanks for all of the tips! Really looking forward to working on the car.

Anyone have an idea on what improvements I can expect when removing the cat, and opening up the exhaust?

thanks guys!

Cheers, Jarle

Landseer · 10-10-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riber.bentsen

I got my WP from Porscheshop, and it is excellent.

What brand? New or rebuilt?

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

New, straight out of the box. Don't remember the brand, but I can check. It was excactly like the one that was on there before.. (Been there for 10 yrs, put there by Porsche mechanic)

Landseer · 12:41 AM

The rebuilts over here had been failing, destroying blocks. Very bad. ( I saw one last saturday in person )
Same with ebay chinese knock-off new casting pumps. Cataclysmic.

So, Laso produced for 928 enthusiasts a new casting, first with metal impeller, now currently with plastic impeller at about 300 USD, so we could discard the rebuilds.

The official Porsche water pump is also excellent, but here costs over 700 USD.

My point is not to buy anywhere unless you know which it is. Your response seemed to indicate you weren't aware of the situation. If you were, you sure didn't help explain it to the new guy.

Rebuilds are happening locally still. Knock-offs are out there. Rebuilt Laso pumps are out there still. Gotta know what to look for or you risk your car.

You want pictures?

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

Landseer, I am aware of the failed WP's, have seen pictures..

I think the situation in Europe is different, and since Jarle is from Norway, that's what he should be worried about. Porscheshop is a renown supplier, and I have no trouble buying parts of their site. The casting and impeller are of OEM quality, I have a certified mechanics word for that.

I am not out to discard your advice, nor do I have any affiliation with Porscheshop other than a very good experience dealing with them, and the things they have sent me being up to my very, very critic standards.

Landseer · 05:23 AM

Good and bad parts are in the worldwide distribution networks.

So, the advice is be careful. If its a Porsche OEM muchos-money waterpump or new Laso, then OK. Anything else --- we don't know.

Just know the upstream source or shop ( on this item ) until you do.

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

It's still not rebuilt.

It costs around 300-320 dollars so probably a Laso, does it state manufacturer anywhere visible on the WP?

Here is a link to the damn thing

Porsche 928 Water Cooling | Hoses, Radiators & Pumps UK

Landseer · 06:23 AM

I can't criticize your choice -- pictures don't tell what stock has shipped or even what is offered.

I'm personally running 3 rebuilt lasos (best available that I could affort / ie other than Porsche, at the time) , 1 new laso with metal impeller (very-newest are plastic) and an unknown.
They need to be changed to make me comfortable, but I can't afford the time or money this minute to do it.

All I'm really saying is that for the water pump I'd only knowingly buy either a Porsche new or a Laso ---- from some entity that can define where it came from and, in the case of Laso, where it is in the evolution of changes made by Laso in the last 18 months.

If the seller can define that, I'm good. The source needs to be ID'd due to the failure issues.

If the seller can't or won't identify explicitly then that seller is not in my relevant set of suppliers for that particular item.

All kinds of pumps and parts are in the WW distribution network. Make sure you get what you expect.

riber.bentsen · riber.bentsen's Garage

So far I have only put about 1000 miles on the new pump, but I haven't noticed any sound that would indicate that anything is wrong with it.

Will keep a close eye/ear to it though.

I'll give the shop a call and inquire about details on the pump..

harborman · harborman's Garage

Yep saw a bad balancer on my friends Buick. Same deal, bad rubber in it. A new harmonic balancer for the 928 is quite expensive!

I did the T belt and pump, took me maybe 20 or 30 hours the first time. Hard to judge because of waiting for parts and taking my time. Not something to rush doing. Guys here were a great help, would not do it without their knowledge, believe me!