Looking for more info on 928 purchase

[tlister67]

Hello! New to this board. I am considering a 928 to replace my BMW 633csi as a project/fun car. I have always admired the 928 and now thinking about owning one. I am fairly competent at electrical and other smaller repairs but no experience with removing major drive line parts. I am partial to the earlier body style. Few questions:

The Excellence buyers guide presents a bleak picture of 928 ownership. Is this overly dramatic? How accurate?

I would prefer a manual, is the clutch on early 928s that big an issue?

Does a rebuilt tranny shift well?

Is it possible to convert an auto 928 to manual?

Do 928s feel sporty with an auto?

Any other very expensive parts that often go wrong?

How are the CIS cars in the cold? A nice day in Idaho can be quite cold in the morning.

[tmpusfugit]

Originally Posted by tlister67

Hello! New to this board. I am considering a 928 to replace my BMW 633csi as a project/fun car. I have always admired the 928 and now thinking about owning one. I am fairly competent at electrical and other smaller repairs but no experience with removing major drive line parts. I am partial to the earlier body style. Few questions:

The Excellence buyers guide presents a bleak picture of 928 ownership. Is this overly dramatic? How accurate? It is hard to understate the depressed 928 market. I have read the Excellence statements, I would not think them to be entirely accurate. But when you can buy 928's that originally sold for $50-90K for loose pocket change there are legitimate reasons for those prices...

I would prefer a manual, is the clutch on early 928s that big an issue? Only if worn, or improperly set up. They are expensive to replace, parts are not always readily available, like the throwout bearing

Does a rebuilt tranny shift well? If properly done they shift great, but the number of people in the USA that can properly rebuild one can most likely be counted on your fingers, and never "cheap"

Is it possible to convert an auto 928 to manual? Yes it is, but like most other things not simple nor cheap

Do 928s feel sporty with an auto? I have had 2 autos and one 5 speed. Ipersonally prefer the 5 speed but am driving an auto now. It fairs better in heavy traffic

Any other very expensive parts that often go wrong? Yes, there are a litney of parts that fail, mostly over time, but fail non the less. Water pumps, timing belts, alternators, starters, AC compressors, clutches, TT bearings, TBF issues in later cars, injectors no longer available for earlier LJet cars

How are the CIS cars in the cold? A nice day in Idaho can be quite cold in the morning. Sorry, no knowledge on CIS cars

All this said, if you enjoy working on cars, and don't plan on a trouble free daily driver, a well bought, decently maintained 928 is the most fun you can have in a vertical position per dollar spent. If you have to have someone else maintain it, you don't want a 928 IMO.

[Landseer]

Only a mechanic with a history of working on 928 cars should used.

The automatic later cars, 85-on, but especially the S4 model 87-on, have a design flaw where the driveshaft mounts to the flexplate, under the bell housing cover. The basic result is longterm pre-loading of the thrust bearing surfaces in the engine. It is called thrust bearing failure, tbf, and is generally recognized as terminal condition for the engine. Insist on being present for a flexplate unloading and crankshaft endplay measurement during a prepurchase inspection. Some failed as early as 20K miles, some are failing now at 150K miles --- hard to predict which car will be affected -- concensus is that they are all vulnerable and require flexplate pressure release and an auxilliary clamp to arrest the wear. I have three automatics with auxilliary driveshaft clamps installed to protect the engine. I have an 84 with the clamps because, as is common, somebody removed the early circlip arrangement that the pre85 cars used that also protected the early automatic cars from the engine damage. That feature was omitted in later years. Shouldn't have been.

I think the excellence description is fairly accurate.

The 5 speeds 85-up are much more reliable gearboxes. The early ones I have seem to have all suffered various damage. The early clutches are fine if serviced properly and not abused. I'm always looking for a spare late gearbox to fit onto an early car. That's the best combo for me.

[harborman]

As you stated you have limited mechanical and electrical experience. If you want a stick shift, then buy one, not an auto to convert. Bad idea! I have an auto and love it! Had my fill of stick shifts. The auto shifts just great. The car handles just wonderfully and a pleasure to drive. If you have the funds, shop around and buy one with good history and maintenance records. You will still need to spend more on it but get a good one to start with if you can. Find someone that knows the 928's to help you. All depends what you want, a car to work on or one to drive. Either way, you will need to have work done and it can be expensive. Even a new gas cap is $156! Get a good car, do your home work, find someone that has one if possible and who knows the car. You can get a lot of help here!

[tlister67]

Thanks for the info. I think I'll look for the best car instead of locking in on a manual. The V8 should mate well with the auto. I actually plan to do most of the work myself as I do have quite a bit of experience with electronics and have owned numerous older cars. I have a good indy mechanic that works on Porsches quite often if I need something beyond my ability. I am nervous about parts cost as they seem quite a bit more than older bimmers. Always need a new adventure.

[Landseer]

sounds like a plan...

About the mechanic though.
Need one that works on 928's and loves it.
Not the typical indie porsche mechanic.
Night and day different than 911 to perform surgery on.


Don't miss the nuance.

[Pete R]

The early 5 speeds had syncro issues, then got a little better around 84. which is what I put in because I couldn't find an 87+ (not 100% on exact year changes, have to go by part #) (still looking, hopefully landseer doesn't see it first) To adapt a real early car to the later trannys the torque tube, shift linkage and cradle must be changed too. BTW my tranny was hard shifting on cold mornings until it warmed up... Redline synthetic fixed it 100%

I haven't found parts to be too outrageous, not Ferrari level anyhow. The thing that sucks is the local auto supply doesn't have them, so they have to be mail ordered. Ca to NH is 1 week ground or an expensive rush.

CIS is fine in the cold. I've never had an issue in NH but it's in the garage the coldest months. I have started it below freezing before just like it was 50 out.

[Landseer]

You & I want 85 or later gearbox. G28-10 or higher designation. The have the borg-warner syncro system. Plug and play for most years.

Your very early car will need to use a later TT or else a notch will need to be made on your driveshaft to accomodate a different rear pinch bolt location. Not a big issue.

[tlister67]

Originally Posted by Landseer

sounds like a plan...

About the mechanic though.
Need one that works on 928's and loves it.
Not the typical indie porsche mechanic.
Night and day different than 911 to perform surgery on.


Don't miss the nuance.

Thanks for the advise. Unfortunately I don't think there is anyone within 200 miles that would be better. This just is not a region with many exotic foreign cars. I'll probably have to travel a bit just to find one.

[Pete R]

Originally Posted by Landseer

You & I want 85 or later gearbox. G28-10 or higher designation. The have the borg-warner syncro system. Plug and play for most years.

Your very early car will need to use a later TT or else a notch will need to be made on your driveshaft to accomodate a different rear pinch bolt location. Not a big issue.

They just don't seem to be out there. I already put in a new TT, linkage and cradle to accomodate my current tranny(79 to 84). So it should be a direct swap .. also want a lsd in it. pretty rare.

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by tlister67

Thanks for the advise. Unfortunately I don't think there is anyone within 200 miles that would be better. This just is not a region with many exotic foreign cars. I'll probably have to travel a bit just to find one.

Four types of Porsche mechanic;

"Bring it on in we work on all the Porsches" Has never touched a 928 in his life.

"Sell it and come back with a real Porsche" Has worked on a few 928's in the past.

"Bring it on in, and a copy of tax returns and a two bank references" Happy to learn on your dime.

"Quotes appt time some months away" Word has gotten out they actually know the 928.

Seriously, if you can't find a place with several "running" 928's around it, you better be prepared to do the work yourself.

[tlister67]

I do plan to do most of the work. I know this mechanic very well outside work and he is very trustworthy and reasonable. He used to be a BMW tech and I always see a 911 or 944 being worked on in his garage. I doubt a 928 would throw him. There are actually two 928s I know of in town (79 and 81) and they both work where I do. One does his own work (has mechanic friend) and not sure about the other.

Good to know there are options for swapping in later transmissions.

[tmpusfugit]

Originally Posted by tlister67

I do plan to do most of the work. I know this mechanic very well outside work and he is very trustworthy and reasonable. He used to be a BMW tech and I always see a 911 or 944 being worked on in his garage. I doubt a 928 would throw him. There are actually two 928s I know of in town (79 and 81) and they both work where I do. One does his own work (has mechanic friend) and not sure about the other.

Good to know there are options for swapping in later transmissions.

Just keep in mind that a 928 is not a BMW, nor is it a 944, or 911. They are far far different beasts. I would go so far as to say a master mechanic of the best ilk on any (or all) of the others will find a 928 a very challenging car to work on. Experience of the proper kind is highly desireable.....most trained Porsche 928 mechanics back in the day had difficulties servicing 928's as they didn't see enough of them to become truely proficent at any of the 928's various and non standard nuances. I have owned 944's, as well as several 928's, and have worked on more than one 911. The 928 is substantially more challenging than anything else I have ever tossed a wrench into....with the assistance of this group, as well as a couple of others, I get by on the 928, but I am in no rush and it is my own car and I am not "on the clock"....all I am suggesting is be prepared to either learn a lot about the car yourself and do the work yourself, or be prepared to pay someone else for the same....finding the right skill set with experience is very difficult....and oh by the way, Landseer and MrMerlin (and several others too) both know what they are talking about. Both have been lifesavers for my efforts, as are several of the various 928 parts suppliers...

[Landseer]

I've started dabbling with a 951. That's every bit as difficult, but different enough that I don't know what is what.

[tmpusfugit]

Originally Posted by Landseer

I've started dabbling with a 951. That's every bit as difficult, but different enough that I don't know what is what.

I had hands on a Boxter yesterday...also not an easy one.... from the service tips guide "to replace the alternator, disconnect the battery using Porsche tool 12345 to maintain computer backup, then disconnect and remove the driver and passenger seats, remove the carpet from the panel access, remove the service panels" etc etc....

[tlister67]

I will heed the warnings. A big part of my enjoyment will be mending things and learning about the car. Looks like I will get a good bit of challenge.

[Landseer]

It is, if you like that part you will be golden with a 928.

Its like a drug of some sort. Blinked my eyes and I had 5 of them in the driveway, running, at less than the price of a new camry.