Looking to purchase a 928 what to look for

[BryO]

I own an 88 951, but want the V8, plus I have always loved he looks of the 28.

Looking for pointers on what to look for and what to stay away from?

[harborman]

Originally Posted by BryO

I own an 88 951, but want the V8, plus I have always loved he looks of the 28.

Looking for pointers on what to look for and what to stay away from?

You mean the 928 of course. Try and find one with a good service history, one owner if possible and the normal things one looks for in a used car. Once you locate one have someone who knows the 928 look it over very well. Reading the posts will also give you insight into the car and problems. There is also the 16V and 32V engines. Unless you can do work on it yourself, shop time is expensive on these. They are not cheap to fix or maintain. Good luck in finding one.

[BryO]

I do like working on my 1988 951, as well as a 1988 944 Celebration Edition that is being restored.

Started reading here and on Renns. But just trying to get an ID on what years to look for and what not to even bother with. ty sir.

[Dean_Fuller]

Whats your budget? That will make the difference.

If you have a 951 you will like working on the 928. Lots more room under the hood for your hands.

Depending on WHAT you want there are NO models to AVOID. If high performance is a MAJOR issue then the 16V euro models or the 32V models will be what will fit the bill. The 1978 to 1982 US models are the lower HP cars but still I think a lot of fun to drive. The autos are 3 speeds on these models. If your looking ONLY for a 5 speed car your choices will be limited and more $$$. The post 82 autos are 4 speeds.

[tmpusfugit]

Prices on 928's range from free, or maybe a few hundred dollars, to maybe $80,000 for a very low mileage late model 928GTS with records and impeccable repair history, all work done right. The bad news is just about any 928 can cost you $3000 to $5,000 in parts alone tomorrow even though it is running well today and has been properly maintained and is thought to be in good condition. If you don't do your own work...look out! All rubber parts are suspect. Most electrical connectors seem to corrode over time and require cleaning and possible replacements. All plastic connectors seem to fail too soon and too often. Relays fail, and some of them are very expensive, some are not. Most parts are expensive and not all are available these days. Interior parts tend to warp, bubble, crack, and generally misbehave. Paint is approaching end of life if not already having failed on many of the 928’s…those left out in the hot Southern sun fail fast. Conversely, northern cars suffer from salt freezing up suspension parts and the like….most of the sunroofs and hatches seem to leak which leads to electrical issues as well as interior damages. Later model auto’s have thrust bearing failures which will totally ruin an engine, make it non repairable. 32 V engines, or 16 v Euro engines can break a timing belt and bend a lot of very expensive valves, if not total out a head. On and On….that all said, I like 928’s a lot….I have bought 3 in the last year…..just keep your eyes wide open and look for assistance and advice from other 928 owners…this and rennlist, and a few good parts folks are the only reason(s) I can keep my car on the road, and I intend to keep it on the road for a long time.

[mproseusa]

/\ /\ /\ Well said Jim.

[BryO]

Looking to spend 8k to 15k. Even if I have to do some work, does not matter. I enjoy working on my cars. Makes me feel better when driving them, knowing this is mine and I fixed it up.

As long as there is more room under the hood I am good. I cannot tell you how many scares, beat up hands, how many new words my young daughter has learned from me working on Turbo

My daughter loves the Turbo, but a little hard for 3 people to ride in for any distance. Plus, the wife wants an auto to make it easier for her to drive.

Thanks guys, and I will be back bugging people with questions.

[tmpusfugit]

Originally Posted by BryO

Looking to spend 8k to 15k. Even if I have to do some work, does not matter. I enjoy working on my cars. Makes me feel better when driving them, knowing this is mine and I fixed it up.

As long as there is more room under the hood I am good. I cannot tell you how many scares, beat up hands, how many new words my young daughter has learned from me working on Turbo

My daughter loves the Turbo, but a little hard for 3 people to ride in for any distance. Plus, the wife wants an auto to make it easier for her to drive.

Thanks guys, and I will be back bugging people with questions.

On my shopping list (just to share my thinking) was the '84 ROW as it represents the last of the 16V's, I still want an '85 Euro 5 speed, and would also like an 86.5 5 speed USA version. I would personally like LSD and sunroof delete....most of those could be had at the lower end of your price range, or even less for some. but, condition condition, condition....and a stack of receipts from a true 928 mechanic who works on a lot of them has "value" and adds to the selling price. And many of the people who proclaim to be 928 experts may be telling an ocassional fib....most of the people who really know these cars can be found here and on Renn and the like....if you find something of interest ask the group for opinions....

Dean I have to disagree with you regards more room to work than a 944T or 951, not so certain that to be the case, at least in my limited experience on 944's...both are nasty, in different ways....and both will expand ones vocabulary extensively....

[Dean_Fuller]

Originally Posted by tmpusfugit

On my shopping list (just to share my thinking) was the '84 ROW as it represents the last of the 16V's, I still want an '85 Euro 5 speed, and would also like an 86.5 5 speed USA version. I would personally like LSD and sunroof delete....most of those could be had at the lower end of your price range, or even less for some. but, condition condition, condition....and a stack of receipts from a true 928 mechanic who works on a lot of them has "value" and adds to the selling price. And many of the people who proclaim to be 928 experts may be telling an ocassional fib....most of the people who really know these cars can be found here and on Renn and the like....if you find something of interest ask the group for opinions....

Dean I have to disagree with you regards more room to work than a 944T or 951, not so certain that to be the case, at least in my limited experience on 944's...both are nasty, in different ways....and both will expand ones vocabulary extensively....

I hear you Jim. I have never owned one but a good friend has one back where I moved from in Tennessee. He also has 928's. The turbo is sure crammed in there and just looking at it hurt my head. Charley even said its tough to work on. Have to disassemble a lot just to start on what you need to fix. Made me look at my 928 a little differently after that....in a good way.

I can only say that these are not that hard to work on if one is willing to give it a try. With basic tools even TB changes are not that bad ( assuming the WP bolts all come out without issue) ...just takes awhile. Now that %$#@ Hall sensor! That Mother ^%$# was interesting.

Makes me wonder if one could work on either without losing ones religion for a few minutes.

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller

Whats your budget? That will make the difference.

If you have a 951 you will like working on the 928. Lots more room under the hood for your hands.

Depending on WHAT you want there are NO models to AVOID. If high performance is a MAJOR issue then the 16V euro models or the 32V models will be what will fit the bill. The 1978 to 1982 US models are the lower HP cars but still I think a lot of fun to drive. The autos are 3 speeds on these models. If your looking ONLY for a 5 speed car your choices will be limited and more $$$. The post 82 autos are 4 speeds.

Hello Dean : what is the differences between the 16 V Euro Models and the 16 V US models related to HP ?
*************************************
If high performance is a MAJOR issue then the 16V euro models or the 32V models will be what will fit the bill.
**********************************************
I would love to know that ?
Example Cam's ? what is the lift on each anyway ? and do they interchange from Euro to US ?
Head's and Compression ?
Injection ?
Thanks if you know and Happy Easter

[neil30076]

You wanted Engine specs ( there is no significance to the shaded lines....):

[JhwShark]

The Euro engine M28/21 or M28/22 (AT) had 300+hp, 10.4:1, likes high test...I think '84-86 'S

[JhwShark]

Neil,
Great chart!

[neil30076]

Thanks, but not my chart, not sure where it originated, I have had it for years!
I have a 81 US auto ( 220hp), my daughter has my 84 Euro S Auto - 310hp, and my wife has the 86S Auto, 288hp. In my opinion, the 84 has by far the best and most responsive engine.

[Dean_Fuller]

The 300 HP euro 16V cars will be the hardest to find and the priciest as well in IMHO as far as PRE S4 cars.

I don't think there is any real difference in the US and euro 32V cars as far as HP.

In short performance will be similar in the post OB 16V euros and the 32V cars.

[aluminum]

Good Info here > and the great chart < But no Cam Specks > No doubt the Cam's must be different.
now I have a motor number chart !! That's something I wanted .
Beyond that the major differences I see other then Engine size are compression ratios and not clear but I expect Injection changes > Ram Tubs and the like to be a factor .
I can't yet find who has the cam Specks and seem to not be able to find them in the manual I have. I understand the Cam's can only have so much Lift to clear the Cam Bearings ( 500 ? )
My Impression is the early 16 V Motors look to be a good Engine to Pump ( Supercharge )
Also the 1980 Us with No Air Pump ( I like that ) and related Air Pump EQ.
I also Expect the lack of US Smog EQ. is a factor to be a "big consideration" in a street car ,

[bet525]

"My daughter loves the Turbo, but a little hard for 3 people to ride in for any distance."

BryO: Having several little people, I can say that the rear seat of a 928 is somewhat usable. The obvious issue is always leg room, but if you can work around that (ie - if your daughter isn't over 5'or so), then a 928 can almost be kind of practical...or so I tell my wife.

[Landseer]

Originally Posted by aluminum

Good Info here > and the great chart < But no Cam Specks > No doubt the Cam's must be different.
now I have a motor number chart !! That's something I wanted .
Beyond that the major differences I see other then Engine size are compression ratios and not clear but I expect Injection changes > Ram Tubs and the like to be a factor .
I can't yet find who has the cam Specks and seem to not be able to find them in the manual I have. I understand the Cam's can only have so much Lift to clear the Cam Bearings ( 500 ? )
My Impression is the early 16 V Motors look to be a good Engine to Pump ( Supercharge )
Also the 1980 Us with No Air Pump ( I like that ) and related Air Pump EQ.
I also Expect the lack of US Smog EQ. is a factor to be a "big consideration" in a street car ,

Here are some camshaft descriptions.
Represented are the twin dizzy Euro camshafts (M21/22 engine... 85/6, but includes 84), the early 32V cars 85/6/6.5, and the S4, then the GT.

Earliest (80-83) EuroS 300 HP car is (rumored to be) very similar to twin dizzy cams. (not shown on this set of charts)

(In these charts, early non-S USA/ROW cars and later 4.5 and 4.7 USA S cars are not shown)

[Landseer]

Here's a thread where a camshaft project is hatched and completed.
Reading and sifting through it might provide some insight.

Again, S4-centric
NEW 32V camshaft sets. - Reutterwerk Forums

[Landseer]

Best early car information seems to be from searching keywords such as Euro cams, Euro S cams, etc, on rennlist. Many enthusiasts have swapped heads, cams and intakes (some Euro intakes for 16V are much bigger to allow air in)

Somewhere there is a complete chart that somebody put together showing specs for the early cars, but I don't have time to search for it. Unfortunately the search functions aren't sophisticated enough to bridge the syntax differences folks use.


example:

Euro cams in a US spec engine - Rennlist Discussion Forums



Anybody doing camshaft swaps needs to get the technical specification booklets that summarize nuances on valve size, complex valve regrind and what appear to be subtle differences in valve spring design over the course of the model progression. ( I've never worked with 928 camshafts and don't know the details, but see them during scanning these documents and posts for other information)