$^%$ Well-sorted S4's are hard to find!!

[gmendo]

I'm in the market for a well-sorted, clean S4. I've looked at a few locally and I can't believe in what poor condition these cars are. Now these are cars that were advertised as "showroom condition" or "exellent condition" when they were nowhere near that.

One I looked at had a nice dash, door panels & seats but had a cheap respray, nasty rattle in the door, bad vibration at idle, warning lights, inop oil & volt gauge, missing front air dam, and oil leaks and low on power!

Another one was supposed to be showroom condition but it was far from that. This one idled fine, had decent power but A/C didn't work, rear leather quater panels and rear seat cushions were lose, window and sunroof switches didn't work, cracked leather on dash and gauge pod and an oil leak that showed itself in form of plumes of smoke during hard turns.

This pic was taken of an ebay ad. It sums up my gripe with 928's

WTF is there a bolt through the shifter?!?!? What's the deal with shoddy repairs?!?!

I will say that eventhough the cars I've seen leave alot to be desired, on the test drive the greatness of the 928 did show through. I was very impressed on how smooth and quiet they were at speed. I feel I'd really appreciate a well-sorted example.

Anyone have any leads on a well-sorted, clean S4? I'm not looking for a low mileage garage queen. I'm looking for a clean car I can drive without worry other than keeping up with maint.

[harborman]

Keep looking, you will find a nice clean one, but it may take some time.

[B-Man100]

I agree with Harborman, and DON"T get a Garage queen, it might look nice but then it comes time to maint. you could be screwed, I was looking at a 89s4 close to where I live and it looks great but mechanically good lord it had been sitting for 3 years, and barely moved, they didn't even put fuel stabilizer in it so everything was gummy. I'd look for a daily driver if I were you

[harborman]

Originally Posted by B-Man100

I agree with Harborman, and DON"T get a Garage queen, it might look nice but then it comes time to maint. you could be screwed, I was looking at a 89s4 close to where I live and it looks great but mechanically good lord it had been sitting for 3 years, and barely moved, they didn't even put fuel stabilizer in it so everything was gummy. I'd look for a daily driver if I were you

Just a note: I bought my car after it sat in a heated garage for 19 years!!! It was rarely driven, low miles, one owner and Porsche maintained with records. It had been serviced just before I bought it. It is basically a "new" 1986, well I now have put on 10,000 more miles on it. I have done some standard maintenance on it, T belt, etc. A rare find for sure. I was not even in the market for a 928 but could not pass up the deal. The car turned out to be fun to drive, comfortable for me at 6'3", not too bad on gas, great handling and still looks modern. This is a summer car only for me.

So keep looking and you will find a good 928 some place. Some gems are still hiding out there! You might try Hemming Motor News, or Barret-Jackson auctions.

[Landseer]

I know a guy that bought a beautiful one for 19K.

It appears to me that he's spent at least $20K more doing refresh and upgrades.

Even the cosmetically clean ones can need very significant refresh campaigns.

Remember, its a 25 year old sports car that dealers didn't want to repair back then, let alone now. Took real deep pockets to service one that saw use.

[harborman]

Landseer is right, these cars are old, so what ever you will need to spend more to keep them up and running. Probably true of many old cars. Make sure you have someone who knows the 928 look at your prospective purchase. Even worth paying them to look it over if necessary.

[Danglerb]

Ratted out 928's is NOT a new thing. Back in 1985 when I was looking for my first 928 I found 5 year old cars that looked like junk, road hard and put away wet. I looked at a car at a dealership in Newport Beach California, and the seat had some kind of spray paint on it. Bad AC, sloppy shifters, and this was 1985, they should have still been almost prestine, but the same thing was true then and now,

Only the bad 928's get put on the market. Nobody willingly sells a 928 in good condition.

OTOH nice cars are NOT hard to find. Great deals on nice cars are hard to find. Wave some serious money and cars will find you. Nobody with a nice car is very interested in a tire kicker looking for a great deal, but if you show a willingness to pay the premium a nice car can demand, you will have the attention of sellers with nice cars.

[gmendo]

Thanks guys, all very good points. I def believe that only the bad 928's get put on the market. Nobody willingly sells a 928 in good condition. Same holds true for the Esprit market.

On the subject of price, it seems like S4's that look to be clean and in good mechanical codition are going for ~ $15k so that's what I was looking to spend. Am I off on my budget?

[Landseer]

$15 is possible in the economy right now, but there will be a 2/3 or so chance that you will need to pump in another $5 or more for refresh.

ts the kind of car that needs a solid look by a 928 freak before valuation in my opinion.

Records need to be current and shop choice needs to be clearly a reputable 928-savvy shop.
History of the vehicle is important to me at the multi-thousand $ level.

15, fully sorted, documented moderate miles, is a great deal. 10-15, unsorted, needing 6 to 8, is more likely. 5 to 7, needing 12 or more, is also common.

One more thing. Like the boxster has IMS bearing stigma, so the S4 has thrust bearing failure issues. Never admitted, but many, many cars have failed and still fail today as they are being pressed back into service. So a special test has to be done on an S4. Measurement of crankshaft endplay, which needs to be done on a lift with exhaust lowered slightly. It can be masked, too, if an owner discovered it and installed an auxilliary clamp. That's why its important to do more than look at oil on a dipstick for metal.

[gmendo]

Thanks for the insight on price.

As for the TBF, I was under the impression all automatics were prone to it if the driveshaft wasn't checked on a regular basis, an aux clamp was a good thing and as long as the crank endplay was within spec, it was good to go. Is that not the case?

Also, can anyone recommend a 928 expert for a PPI in the Southern CA area?

[Landseer]

Practically speaking, the S4 and later.

Yes to what you say.

But. Gotta check it. It is possible for unscrupulous folks noticing the engine beginning to seize hot, find that endplay is out of spec. Before the wear-thru and full seize, they outfit clamp to stablize it. I'm from Missouri on this. At multi-K$, show me.

Sounds like you are already way ahead of others on doing homework.

Go to rennlist 928 forum and find Bill Ball's threads about making the endplay measurement if you need any further detail.

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by gmendo

Thanks for the insight on price.

As for the TBF, I was under the impression all automatics were prone to it if the driveshaft wasn't checked on a regular basis, an aux clamp was a good thing and as long as the crank endplay was within spec, it was good to go. Is that not the case?

Also, can anyone recommend a 928 expert for a PPI in the Southern CA area?

In SoCal the ONLY guy I would have do a PPI is Greg Brown at Precision Motorwerks in Anaheim. He not only knows the cars very well, but he has done a LOT of inspections for very serious buyers of expensive cars, and NOTHING slips past him.

Two points I would add;

Spend an hour or so with a helper and check the bonehead stuff yourself. Rennlist has some links to good PPI checklists in the sticky section at the top of the forums, and you really don't need to pay a top mechanic to see if the all the lights work, keys fit in the locks, etc etc.

Give a stopping point for the inspection, things that are deal killers for you. No point in checking compression if the crank endplay is bad.