Is there a market for 928's ?

[ckcarr]

Although I don't post that much on this board, having spent most of my time on the BMW r1100s r1200s board, this 928 board is the original reason I found Pelican Parts and these great boards.

So for several years, my attention has been on motorcycles, with occassional use of my 928.

I don't think it's my imagination that I'm seeing far more activity on the board these days than 10 years ago.

But now my 928 basically is in the garage, neglected by me and I'm starting to wonder if it deserves a better home. I'm only toying with the idea right now as I still never get tired of the car, and love looking at it. But if I were to decide to put up for sale, do we (here) have an active buy & sell thread, or are Craigslist and ebaymotors still the best bets? The car, like the BMW r1200s, is a unique vehicle, with a fairly small group of potential buyers. So I'm curious based on experience, what's best. Any input appreciated.

Thanks!
(sorry for the rambling)

[aluminum]

would that be a #44 1977 ? Kandy Apple Paint ?

[Danglerb]

There is a market, but a lot of enthusiasts have been buying cheap over the last year or so.

A Special early car will get decent attention, but its all in the details. Post some picts of the car and we can guess more.

[ckcarr]

OK,
Serial number 61. Well here's a couple pictures. It is not original paint. It was repainted about 20 years ago.





Again, really just curious as to where the best market would be. eBay, Craigslist, or some other specialty.

[riber.bentsen]

Wow, that is a stunning example you've got there buddy! And beautiful locations as well

I'd say, hold on to your car. You'll never get the proper value for it, at least not in this economy. In a decade or so, maybe things will be different for the 928. It might just be a few years in the future, if Porsche decides to go ahead with it's coupe-panamera..

[rjm65]

I've always wondered about this but why would the intro of a Panamera Coupe raise the market value of the 928?

[Pete R]

Nice car. Who are we kidding? The value of the 928 is not going to go up, ever. The last 33 years is a pretty good indicator. There is nothing to suggest anybody but us will fall in love with them and suddenly drive the price up.. and be happy about that. Those of us that like them can still buy them.

[ckcarr]

Yeah, I have always been attracted to unique vehicles that most others don't want. Like on the BMW r1100s forum I/we there buy bikes we know are super special and unique. But like these cars, you pay a lot when you want one, then realize you are the curator. Oh well, Nothing matters - no financial crisis at all, at this point insurance is nothing and it's beautiful to look at.

[pcar928fan]

Craig, what are the specifics of your car? Auto/5spd, '78?, miles, etc...

Looks really nice. I agree w/ others, probably worth more to hang on to it than sell it!

[neil30076]

Oh, oh. James needs a 78 in his collection!

[riber.bentsen]

Originally Posted by rjm65

I've always wondered about this but why would the intro of a Panamera Coupe raise the market value of the 928?

Well, I don't know. But look what happened to the original Mini, or the Fiat 500. Prices of originals almost always go up when a retro or spiritual successor is presented. And speculations about Porsche may wanting to call it the 929 helps, too.

[gbgastowers]

Those pictures in your gallery are incredible. Did you take them? Gunar

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by ckcarr

OK,
Serial number 61. Well here's a couple pictures. It is not original paint. It was repainted about 20 years ago.

Again, really just curious as to where the best market would be. eBay, Craigslist, or some other specialty.

Serial number 61 is high enough it isn't likely to have any of the unique features of early cars (600 Euro models were I think made before the first of the US models), so no real value added.

Non original paint, pretty big knock.

Value pretty much same as any other 78/79, depends on the details of condition.

Where to best market it? Everywhere, no point in not listing it for sale in every place you can reasonably do so, with the caveat that ebay and others need a price and it shouldn't be lower than you are willing to accept even if nobody else bids. I don't like reserve auctions and tend not to bid in them.

[924CarreraGTP]

I would say this all depends on the year and the personal preference of the buyer. I took a risk and bought my 1984 928S out of a junkyard where it had been sitting for 6 years. I spent a lot of time and money fixing it, and at any time this month or next month, I can go out, crank it up, and whip up on rogue Dodge Challenger R/Ts, and the tricked out but still stupid Mazda RX7s.
I can also say that in comparison my 911 was twice as hard to get running and the gearbox feels like something that came out of a VW Notchback. Granted my 2.2 liter 911 with no rust is awesome, but when I wanna do donuts in the highway, I turn to one of my 928s.
My next question to the 928 market is this. What do you think is going to be a classic when the 356 Speedsters, and early 911s are all either bought up, in collections, or rusted away in their ungalvanized glory? I think when many other "classics" have turned to dust the 928s are still gonna be weathering profoundly well. My '84 is living proof. 6 years in a junkyard, pristine original paint in a rare color, the original engine and transmission that still shifts great. Even the kickdown works.
My 911 may send chills up my spine, but my Porsche 928s are both pure bred monsters.
Whether Porsche builds the 929 or not, I think the original 928 will have its day in the classic car sun before its all over. I'm sure a retro version wouldn't hurt the market either.

[Jadz928]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

... (600 Euro models were I think made before the first of the US models), so no real value added.
....

#61 is an early car, in the US, and those 600+ Euro models are not all here, in the US.
There is potential value for such an early car.

Originally Posted by Danglerb

....
Non original paint, pretty big knock...

I believe this in only true is the repaint was done poorly.
If it was done well, professionally, on a restoration level... my personal opinion is it is worth as much (if not more) than original paint.
The reason for this logic is due to the fact there are not many pristine, original paint, 33 yr old 928 left out there. I would suspect the original paint is looking tired, if the car has more than a few miles on it.
So the next best thing is a well-done respray. <---and these are few and far btw.

Originally Posted by Danglerb

...
Value pretty much same as any other 78/79, depends on the details of condition.
....

Don't agree. If the car is clean, well-preserved, well-maintained, possesses period originality... an early car like this is rare, IMHO, and should command quite a premium over any other 78/79.
A car on this level doesn't come around very often. And most of these early 928 are pretty worn out.

To the OP's original ?....
YES, there is a market for high-end early cars. However, right now the market is very limited, as cash is short.
Give it a few years, tidy up your 928 to a really high level (if not there already), and you will find a market.
And in the meantime, get the old bugger out and drive it!

PS. DanglerB... stop being so negative!

[Plexus928]

Originally Posted by rjm65

I've always wondered about this but why would the intro of a Panamera Coupe raise the market value of the 928?

Because the 928 is a better looking car?

[Danglerb]

Jim you have a bit of a bias, but I live 10 miles from 928 Intl and used to stop in as often as twice a month or so to see what was headed for the crusher. Several times I championed cars that I thought deserved a second chance, including I think a VIN around the 50's might of even been #24, I can't recall, but its a BIG task and nobody saved them.

I don't see my position as negative. I see it as practical. What I don't like to see happen is to have even an ambitious capable buyer pick a bad 928 and give up two years later when a better choice might have gotten them over the hump and another 928 on the road.

This specific 928 is nice looking, "depends on the details of condition." means from a base value the same as any other 78/79, it gets points for condition. How much I can't guess without knowing that condition in detail.

BTW I like the clean early body style, lack of sunroof on many etc., but as a driver the 78/79 is at the bottom of my list, and I suspect in general they will remain the lowest valued 928's, with the exception of special cars.

The point of the 600 Euros is that only the first few dozen cars off the line had any variation from the thousands that followed. The low VIN number isn't the money magic, its the variation from standard production, and with thousands of the 78/79 still around that isn't likely to change.

[Jadz928]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Jim you have a bit of a bias, but I live 10 miles from 928 Intl and used to stop in as often as twice a month or so to see what was headed for the crusher. Several times I championed cars that I thought deserved a second chance, including I think a VIN around the 50's might of even been #24, I can't recall, but its a BIG task and nobody saved them.

I don't see my position as negative. I see it as practical. What I don't like to see happen is to have even an ambitious capable buyer pick a bad 928 and give up two years later when a better choice might have gotten them over the hump and another 928 on the road.

This specific 928 is nice looking, "depends on the details of condition." means from a base value the same as any other 78/79, it gets points for condition. How much I can't guess without knowing that condition in detail.

BTW I like the clean early body style, lack of sunroof on many etc., but as a driver the 78/79 is at the bottom of my list, and I suspect in general they will remain the lowest valued 928's, with the exception of special cars.

The point of the 600 Euros is that only the first few dozen cars off the line had any variation from the thousands that followed. The low VIN number isn't the money magic, its the variation from standard production, and with thousands of the 78/79 still around that isn't likely to change.

Of course I bias. But I'm also knowledgeable on early car because I've been watching them closely. And I have no aurgument in the "to save, or not to save" line of thought.
My point is, out of the 1000's of early 928 still out there, only a very select few are still in a condition range of good to excellent. Most are bad to worse.
Example: In the last 3 years of following early 928, I've seen 6 solid, original, drivers (or better) that were worth writing home about. That's it, in 3 years.
And like you, I search nationally, daily. And in that time, I've reviewed probably over 500 turd-buckets. And I'm only looking at 78's, sometimes '79's.

And out of those 6 928's, only 4 had original paint. Another will be needing it soon.
Out of those 6, only 2 were pristine. The other 4 are drivers, that need a little work. But there were nice and original.

And this is the best of the best that's out there, For Sale in the market.
Granted there are a few more in enthusiast hands, here and on RL. But not thousands, not even hundreds.
The point is, good ones are rare, and will continue to get more rare.
That will continue to happen until folks start taking these on as restorations.
And that just isn't happening yet.

Are you aware that these early 928's collectibility is on the rise in Germany?
They are 30 years old or more, so they are exempt from big taxes.
The "youngtimers" (young classic collectors) are into 928's!
And guess what, they are even more rare there. Guess where they will be looking for 928's next?

Maybe negative is a bit harsh. How about practically short-sighted? Keep an open mind buddy.

PS. I agree with you that there is not enough info about the OP's 928 to make a fair assement. The interior could be a rats-nest. But that is not what he was asking about, was it?

[Danglerb]

One of the things I think is true in the 928 market is that nobody ever willingly sells a nice 928. What we see on the market are generally problem cars sold over and over, and only very rarely a nice 928 due to unfortunate circumstances. This leads me to believe that perhaps a fair percentage (maybe 5% tops) of nice original cars are still in the hands of the original buyer or their families.

1979 was the highest production year for the 928, and when those came off the initial 5 year lease that was common at the time in 1984 the 4.7L S was in its second year, and people knew the 32v cars were coming soon. The resale market for the CIS cars was in the toilet, too many of them coming off lease, and no buyers except at fire sale prices. My suspicion is that this resulted in many keeping nice cars instead of selling them cheap, but it may have just diverted cars from public sales to passing them on to family members.

The bane of all 928's is that by the early 90's it was very easy to get very bad service work done, and that is the primary reason for the overall decline in quality. I think this hit the early CIS and vacuum control cars the worst.

OTOH it could be that really nice early cars aren't going to be found anymore. If so I would insist at a minimum on original paint in saveable condition. Cost of good paint alone puts the price in range of very nice newer cars.

[924CarreraGTP]

I know a local who has two Porsche 928s. The 79 was sent to a local VW mechanic that proceeded to pull the whole fuel injection out of it and then the nerve to ask for $1000 to put it back together. It sits today with no fuel injection and the motor wasn't covered. The 1984 928S Euro he has had an alternator problem that some hillbilly tried to fix but never figured it out. So he has two cars that don't run sitting in his yard due to idiot mechanics. I concur on the bad service problems in the 90's and the still bad service that many people are getting at Chevy and MG repair shops.
Most people who try to work on 928s can't find the relay board. The technical resources in cheap Haynes or Chilton form are also nonexistent. I've yet to figure out why. Much of what I learned about 928s was from hands on experience, trial and error, and the net.