thoughts on '87 928 s4

[ghost1001]

Hi Guys,

Not mine but seriously considering it.....1987 S4 auto, blue over dark blue, 2 owner car, 43k miles 9/10 interior and exterior, records from 1999 on serviced at a very good Porsche only shop. Drives good, probably needs a few things here and there.

Options:

M018 Sports Steering Wheel with Elevated Hub -30mm
M158 Radio, Blaupunkt Reno SQR 46
M302 Type designated on rear end "928 S 4"
M418 Side Protection Moldings
M490 Sound System
M494 Additional Amplifier
M537 Seating Position Control for Comfort Seat - Left
M570 Air Conditioner with Improved Efficiency (Rear A/C)
M586 Back-Support (Lordose) - Left Seat
M650 Electrical Sliding Roof


Any thoughts on value or what a reasonable offer would be....sellers seems to think it is worth mid to high teens.

Thanks
Kevin

[mikeesik]

I have no recourse with you whatsoever!
I APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST IN THE 928.

BUT!

I AM TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT ABSOLUTE NEWBIES WANTING TO PURCHASE A SIGNIFICANT PORSCHE.
-THESE FELLAS AND MISS'S OUT THERE MUST FIRST GO THROUGH AN INTERVIEW.

- AGE.
-KNOWLEDGE OF VEHICLES.
-MECHANICAL ABILITY.
-PASSION.
-BRAINS.
-HANDS ON EXPERIENCE.
-MONEY DISPOSABILITY.

-A..N..D MATURITY !!!!!!

-PASSION !!! Did I say that already !!- Passion before the purchase !!!

Without any of these the Breed which deserves better.
THE CAR WILL DIE and values will make the car more popular in Mexico than a 56 CHEVY !!

[Dean_Fuller]

With the miles and what looks like a very nice clean car...it could very well be worth that range. But there is sooo much that needs to be looked at to determine for sure.

Timing belt service is a big deal...needs to be up to date and within age.
Torque tube bearings could be $$$
With a automatic you NEED to check for thrust bearing failure...check crank end play.

Looks like a nice clean example. I am sure you would love a 928.

[924CarreraGTP]

I think $10,000 would be a fair price as is. That is with local medium mileage S4's going for $6,000 to $8,000. This is a low mileage car, but it's not that low. I would offer $12,000 for it at the most and still expect to spend another $3,000 to $4,000 to make it perfect. This is of course for a car with perfect interior, complete tool kit, spare, original owners manual, and all of the original effects.

[neil30076]

Low mileage on an 87 - 43k/24+ yrs is only 2k/yr - hardly driven, and a lot of parts are failing or about to through non use. My 3 have over 130k each, and are all doing very well with a lot of routine tlc- at minimum, you need to replace the fuel lines, vacuum connectors and the timing belt - they are designed to be driven, not stored ! In San Diego, I would give 6 - 7 max for that car.

[Danglerb]

It looks like a nice car, but you can't talk money on a 928 without a PPI by a shop expert specifically in the 928, not just a Porsche shop.

I start with a basic question, is this the ONE I want, the color, the interior, model year etc. Many feel otherwise, but I have no interest in an automatic.

Then look over the repair history, or have someone that knows the 928 well look it over. What is the reputation of the shop within the 928 community?

All looks good, carfax and autocheck, then full inspection.

[19psi]

Low mileage and pristine condition is the only way to go. Pick something with over 100K miles and you'll be one of those guys who insists every 928 needs $10K in immediate repairs and after years of ownership "only" has a two page laundry list of problems left.

I bought my one owner '82 with 45K miles and it's like sitting in a time capsule. Underbody looks like a one year old car. No corrosion, frozen fasteners or areas covered in oily grime. All bells and whistles work, I can tear down the highway on a 105 degree day with the cruise on while the A/C blows 30 degree air. Park it at a car show and people flock to it and those that aren't car savvy ask if it's new. I'd drive it cross country and back without giving it a second thought.
I think I've put about $200 into it and $100 was for a fuel line kit.

I'm shopping for an S4 or GT and automatically pass on any with more than 80K miles. Too many low mileage examples out there to settle for anything less, imo.

I'd have no problems paying $15K for that S4 as long as it was really in pristine condition, has verifiable mileage, original paint and has all maintenance records. On a personal level it would need to be a different color (no offense, blue is just my least favorite color) and a 5 speed.

I would start taking off for things like the curb rashed wheels and the cheesy emblems stuck on the rear view mirrors.

Near showroom S4s and GTs with 30K to 40K are typically in the very high teens to low 20s in the Chicagoland area. I just glanced at an add a few hours ago for a really nice '87 with 81K miles for $18K. Unfortunately it's an automatic, if it was a stick I'd probably be going to check it out.

And in the grand scheme of things, what's $15K more or less? Compare that exotic 928 to a used 40K mile Kia or Hyundai for the same price!

[924CarreraGTP]

This is a good point. You do want a 928 with plenty of service records but I doubt cars like this will be up to date. Cars like this were put away in garages because the owners would rather not drive them than pay thousands to have Porsche dealerships maintain them. It's sad but true. So that was something I left out. Maintenance records are important.

[Dean_Fuller]

I hear so many 928 owners complain of LOW resale values and why that is. As owners we cause it by shooting ourselves in the wallet. By talking buyers into thinking they can buy a NICE 928 for $6000.....this is RARE.

To say this is a $6000 car (near perfect interior, paint, clean engine, low miles)...unless it needs every single major repair ...that is just not realistic in my mind.

If the car is as nice as it is described and PPI is good...it is WELL worth the mid teens. IMHO.

[19psi]

Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller

I hear so many 928 owners complain of LOW resale values and why that is. As owners we cause it by shooting ourselves in the wallet. By talking buyers into thinking they can buy a NICE 928 for $6000.....this is RARE.

To say this is a $6000 car (near perfect interior, paint, clean engine, low miles)...unless it needs every single major repair ...that is just not realistic in my mind.

If the car is as nice as it is described and PPI is good...it is WELL worth the mid teens. IMHO.

But wouldn't you love to an owner dumb enough to let a 928 like that one go at less than ½ its real value?

I'm not sure if I'd clue the person in and keep a clean conscience or throw $6K at them and feel like I won the lottery.

[Dean_Fuller]

I doubt if a seller asking mid to high teens will come down to $6000. Its not the seller I am concerned about as much as the buyer being told the car is worth half what the seller wants. All this from 2 pics and a 2 sentence description. Granted a good PPI for a car in this price range is needed. But depending on what that says the car may be priced correctly....or not.

[Danglerb]

I start with the position that no real 928 owner ever sells a nice 928 willingly. Top dollar might twist some arms, being dead is a factor, or near dead, or financial troubles, down sizing homes etc. If there isn't some "good reason" the person cannot keep the 928, there is a good reason related to the 928 that is causing its sale.

928's in nice shape are rare, and so are the buying able to pay top dollar, so prices VARY considerably. I advise against trying to hit the trifecta of great shape, great price, and being able to swing the deal. Once you find a nice car that suits you, buy it. Negotiate as much as you think you can, but regret it maybe for another year of looking and not driving a 928 if you fail.

OTOH except for pristine examples or especially rare ones, 928's do not sell quickly for top dollar with many on the market for years, and then usually at a lesser price. Many are like me, I already have a few, so I have to be selective on price and condition to keep living at home.

Long way of saying, seller may want high teens, but an 87 AT with 43k miles in light blue isn't the dream car of that many potential owners who have the money to make the purchase. If one of the buyers who do desire just this car is not currently in the market, it won't sell for top dollar until one is in the market. $12k to $15k doesn't sound bad to me, but only if the PPI is clean, and its pretty much just the 928 you want.

With all due respect to 19psi, the nicest looking less than 20k mile 928 I have ever seen still needed close to $7k to make the PM current. Buyers of brand new 928's routinely put $2k to $3k on average per year after about 5 years of ownership to keep them 100%.

[Dean_Fuller]

Guys...Please read this thread as an "outsider" would see it. If I had come here asking what was asked and knowing little about a 928...I would not only not buy that car...I would NEVER even think about a 928 again...ever. It sounds like the biggest money pit, unreliably, worthless car ever made. It is not! Especially starting with a clean example. I still think if you do your own wrenching ( no reason why not with all the step by step threads on repairs available) you will not spend near what numbers are being thrown around in this thread.

We should be encouraging new buyers ( at the same time being honest ) to the 928 world. Not leaving them with the idea that , if you own one , you must be stupid and a glutton for punishment.

Owning any old car is a money loosing proposition. Owning any NEW car is a money loosing proposition. You buy any $35,000 new car and within the time it takes to pay it off , you have LOST $20,000. Does that sound like a smart move? No, but people do it every day. Those numbers would keep a 928 running in perfect condition for decades. I have never understood the need to "make money" on car ownership...it will never happen.

Rant over.

[SanDiego928]

Get a PPI from experienced 928 shop - negotiate from there - then buy it and drive it and learn about it.

Keep it in a garage for sure.

[medipedicman]

Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller

Guys...Please read this thread as an "outsider" would see it. If I had come here asking what was asked and knowing little about a 928...I would not only not buy that car...I would NEVER even think about a 928 again...ever. It sounds like the biggest money pit, unreliably, worthless car ever made. It is not! Especially starting with a clean example. I still think if you do your own wrenching ( no reason why not with all the step by step threads on repairs available) you will not spend near what numbers are being thrown around in this thread.

We should be encouraging new buyers ( at the same time being honest ) to the 928 world. Not leaving them with the idea that , if you own one , you must be stupid and a glutton for punishment.

Owning any old car is a money loosing proposition. Owning any NEW car is a money loosing proposition. You buy any $35,000 new car and within the time it takes to pay it off , you have LOST $20,000. Does that sound like a smart move? No, but people do it every day. Those numbers would keep a 928 running in perfect condition for decades. I have never understood the need to "make money" on car ownership...it will never happen.

Rant over.

+1 Rant approved

[19psi]

Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller

Guys...Please read this thread as an "outsider" would see it. If I had come here asking what was asked and knowing little about a 928...I would not only not buy that car...I would NEVER even think about a 928 again...ever. It sounds like the biggest money pit, unreliably, worthless car ever made.

Now go to the flip side...and I really can't wrap my mind around this. A guy starts a thread selling his '87 S4 with 164,000 miles for $9,500 and you have guys going ga ga over it claiming it's worth much more than the asking price.

Some guy buys the car and starts a thread with a list of major problems...that sweet amazing car which should have sold for thousands more is basically undriveable. I wonder if his decision to buy that hacked on used up car was based on all the accolades thrown at it in that thread?

Yet here, a same year, 40K mile, unmolested car in pristine condition is worth $7K tops.

Pelican should post a warning about this being a Bizzaro land site. I'm thinking about cracking open my odometer and adding 100,000 miles so that the value increases!

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by 19psi

Now go to the flip side...and I really can't wrap my mind around this. A guy starts a thread selling his '87 S4 with 164,000 miles for $9,500 and you have guys going ga ga over it claiming it's worth much more than the asking price.

Some guy buys the car and starts a thread with a list of major problems...that sweet amazing car which should have sold for thousands more is basically undriveable. I wonder if his decision to buy that hacked on used up car was based on all the accolades thrown at it in that thread?

Yet here, a same year, 40K mile, unmolested car in pristine condition is worth $7K tops.

Pelican should post a warning about this being a Bizzaro land site. I'm thinking about cracking open my odometer and adding 100,000 miles so that the value increases!

-You are one that should NOT be an Owner of 928.-You don't get it and you don't understand.

-I bet you are a young dumb whippersnapper!

[mikeesik]

-I gotto put it this way- Most of us owners are probably working stiffs..but serious car guys.

-We remembered these cars in the movies and -they- cruising by when we were young driving our own cars which were mostly ****e. Most of us, anyways love to drive.
We are mostly Married with kids-now- and wish always in our minds to have a -fantastic car- A Porsche would be almost the dream..something used and tangible.
Forget about Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati. Forget about even the 911 Turbo-too costly! I wanted one. No way!
-We found out that the 928 is bigger, faster, and looked better than the 924 or 944.- Whoops, did I say AFFORDABLE!!(?)
-That was the key to a lot of owner ships.
-What a lot of purchasers didn't think of or -wanted to- was cost of maintenance.
The 928 is an Exotic -not a Vette!

-This is the fall of the 928.

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by ghost1001

Hi Guys,

Not mine but seriously considering it.....1987 S4 auto, blue over dark blue, 2 owner car, 43k miles 9/10 interior and exterior, records from 1999 on serviced at a very good Porsche only shop. Drives good, probably needs a few things here and there.

Options:

M018 Sports Steering Wheel with Elevated Hub -30mm
M158 Radio, Blaupunkt Reno SQR 46
M302 Type designated on rear end "928 S 4"
M418 Side Protection Moldings
M490 Sound System
M494 Additional Amplifier
M537 Seating Position Control for Comfort Seat - Left
M570 Air Conditioner with Improved Efficiency (Rear A/C)
M586 Back-Support (Lordose) - Left Seat
M650 Electrical Sliding Roof


Any thoughts on value or what a reasonable offer would be....sellers seems to think it is worth mid to high teens.

Thanks
Kevin

-this vehicle is amazing and beautiful.

[19psi]

Originally Posted by mikeesik

-You are one that should NOT be an Owner of 928.-You don't get it and you don't understand.

-I bet you are a young dumb whippersnapper!

Is this some tongue in cheek sarcastic comment or did you really not comprehend a single sentence of my previous post?

How about you visit the new owner of that 164K mile car with a $9,500 price tag (worth at least $11K!) and use your vast mechanical skills to get it roadworthy? Between here and rennlist, I've read so much high praise about you...if anyone can get it going, it's you!