The 928 Lightweight

[Fixer]

Hope this reads, found in my saved Excellence Mag: #130 Thought many would want to order the issue.




i should scan when i have time, the car did quite well..

[Fixer]

Hope you enjoy.

[Danglerb]

My stock USA 83 5 spd weighs 3280 lbs, when I am done I expect my Euro 85 to slip under 3,000 lbs. 928's with full cages etc get stripped down to around 2800 lbs or less (penalty for less weight in some racing classes).

What I see often failed to mention is that to make a Mustang or Camaro race ready essentially nothing of the factory suspension remains.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

My stock USA 83 5 spd weighs 3280 lbs, when I am done I expect my Euro 85 to slip under 3,000 lbs. 928's with full cages etc get stripped down to around 2800 lbs or less (penalty for less weight in some racing classes).

What I see often failed to mention is that to make a Mustang or Camaro race ready essentially nothing of the factory suspension remains.

Right, and the body had to be stiffened big time with the cage. My '83 928 is hands down a much more rigid body than my 356 derived '86 911 was. It is very noticeable. Back to Camaros running an oval, being of unit construction (928) does not always mean lighter construction. The 928 was built right from day 1 to handle what it had beneath the hood.
If a stock Camaro of the day was on a difficult track like 'The Ring' against a stock 928, the Camaro couldn't touch it.
A 928 is heavy but not in a sloppy manufacturing way, one can see how much went into keeping it as light as they could for what is was intended for.

[riber.bentsen]

I don't think it's a one-off, there is an all-aluminium 928 in the Porsche museum in Stuttgart.

[Danglerb]

NSX was all aluminum wasn't it? At the time it was a sort of green hot rod thing to do, but structurally I really prefer steel as aluminum even at lower stress loads eventually fatigues and cracks.

[Constantine]

I chased this 928 racer down and from my conversations with the late Mr. Snodgrass and others, it has never been confirmed that this Daytona Racer was actually all aluminum. In fact I doubt it is.

Hopefully this question can be put to rest soon since the racer sans engine was sitting in Porsche's museum warehouse a few years ago. Maybe a 928er can contact the museum curators, be allowed to see it and answer this question once and for all.

The picture below was sent to me by the former Porsche museum curator, Mr. Bischoff.

[924CarreraGTP]

I got my '83 down to 3,250lbs. It was really getting quick. Plus it still had the stock seats in it. After I traded it, someone brought three 914's here with a collection of light 914 seats. At that time I kicked myself for trading my '83. One of these days I'm going to build another one and I'm going to get it under 3,000lb's with racing seats and a completely stripped interior. Good article though. The 928 is really a better car than most people give it credit for.

[Fixer]

I had been thinking 914 seats also, like the look too.

Some 3-4 paragraphs of the end of the article were cut off. It went on to mention SoCal's Mark Anderson's success as well as other privateers against 911s in club racing in Germany as well as the British Production Sports Car series and Mark A of 928 International in Speedvision's GT series..

The last paragraph of the article:
"Still, one is left to wonder what might
have been had Porsche given the 928
a fraction of the attention it lavished
on the 911. Perhaps the 928 was an
inherently heavy platform, but it was
a far better balanced car. Of course,
marketing probably played a big part in Porsche's
decision-a factor that's killed off real factory
racing development for some of Stuttgart's
very best chassis."

[Danglerb]

Skip the 914 seats, look like lawn furniture to me. Early manual seats don't weight very much, or go to a true "legal" race seat. The first 300 lbs or so is easy, mostly creature comforts and sound deadening. Second 300 lbs is more deep carving.

[Fixer]

I've kept my A C for now because it works so well. (911 A C was not missed)
But i have removed a lot and don't think it's below 3250 lbs.

The heavy cat is gone, replaced with lightweight test pipe, installed a smaller battery, no spare tire, jack or air compressor. All factory tools are put away with the spare tire and the rest. Haven't changed out the primary exhaust manifolds yet. The disc wheels are a bit lighter than my 911 Fuchs..Getting rid of the heavy mirrors would save 4-5 lbs..but $$$ for aero, had RS America aero mirrors on my 911, but that was a much better economy then. The sport mirrors on the 928 Lightweight above are pretty lousy looking imo, but are available and cheap.
The charcoal canister is gone, the air pump and associated junk were chucked. I deleted the rubber wing assembly and front spoiler and the heavy hatch glass window wiper. I removed the automatic radio antennae permanently which is pretty heavy. I removed all of the sound deadening under the floor mats (foam only) There is a little more i think but i don't recall..

I may remove the radio-motor sound is enough for me, but i still can't see getting this car down to even 3100 lbs. without gutting the interior and losing A C.
I am not sure of the weight currently but i doubt it's even below 3200 lbs.
I will take it past the township dump on the way home and post it here.
I did the same stuff with my Carrera and got it down to 2560 lbs. with about a half tank of fuel.
Looked at the auto seat motors and mechanisms in both the Carrera and 928, motors are very small and mechanisms are very simple and light looking, the seat frames are very cool, just pressed holes everywhere for lightness.

[tisilrad]

yeah, i have done a lot of the same thing, i have also removed the ac..but will probably be putting it back on..i am old. i will be taking my car to the local animal feed store, they have scales for weighing bulk corn and such and will weigh any car that rolls across the scales..i may have to buy some corn or something but have a farm..i can use it i will et you guys knw what the results are.

[Fixer]

My '83S with a full fuel tank, rubber mats over factory mats all interior intact and an emergency blanket for the kids, no washer fluid : 3280lbs.
The transfer station guy said the scale is calibrated by the state every month;+/-20lbs..
I don't see how it is possible to get a 928 street car below 3000lbs.
tsilrad, nice money pit! let me know the weight.

[924CarreraGTP]

I removed my entire A/C and the washer bottle for the wipers. The interior was still mostly intact except for the back seats. I removed them and put black carpet down. I removed the stereo, amp, speakers, etc. I think with some lighter seats I could have broken under 3100 pretty easily. I also still had the floor mats in, but not the sound deadeners. The tape console was still in it. I toyed with rmoving it, but it looked pretty ugly without it there.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

I removed my entire A/C and the washer bottle for the wipers. The interior was still mostly intact except for the back seats. I removed them and put black carpet down. I removed the stereo, amp, speakers, etc. I think with some lighter seats I could have broken under 3100 pretty easily. I also still had the floor mats in, but not the sound deadeners. The tape console was still in it. I toyed with removing it, but it looked pretty ugly without it there.

I wonder what the entire A C system weighs?
I removed the 2 door speakers (which were very light and original) but left the rears. i also removed the cat related counter and its carpeted cover located btwn the passenger seat and pass door i forgot about.
I will look at the washer bottle, could always re install. I can't take the rear seats out.
When the rear facias were off i got out my hole saws to lighten the hidden bumpers but it was a bear and i gave up on it.
The rear bumperettes are very hefty, they should be deleted.

[924CarreraGTP]

Good idea on the hidden bumpers. You might could even have them professionally drilled with large and small holes all the way up and down them. Kinda like below but you wouldn't even see the holes. You could maybe do it on the rear hidden bumper too.

[Danglerb]

You don't have to wonder about how to save weight, plenty of threads by people who have done it.

Power seats are HEAVY, switch to manual saves about 50 for both, spare tire, tools, smaller battery are good for maybe the 1st 100 lbs.

Manual transmission weighs less than automatic, but I am not sure about the net amount when the clutch related stuff is included, but it is still less.

23.5 gallons of fuel weighs about 140 lbs, so 100 lbs by racing below 1/4 tank.

But like I said, many threads with all the details, many cars below 3000 lbs.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

Good idea on the hidden bumpers. You might could even have them professionally drilled with large and small holes all the way up and down them. Kinda like below but you wouldn't even see the holes. You could maybe do it on the rear hidden bumper too.

I like this 911. You're right , even better i should have simply removed them. Once drilled they won't do their job anyway being aluminum. I had fg IROC bumper spoilers on my Carrera and i always thought if i have a minor accident my car is toast,so i didn't remove them from the 928. I did end up getting rear ended in the Carrera sitting at a stop light.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

You don't have to wonder about how to save weight, plenty of threads by people who have done it.

Power seats are HEAVY, switch to manual saves about 50 for both, spare tire, tools, smaller battery are good for maybe the 1st 100 lbs.

Manual transmission weighs less than automatic, but I am not sure about the net amount when the clutch related stuff is included, but it is still less.

23.5 gallons of fuel weighs about 140 lbs, so 100 lbs by racing below 1/4 tank.

But like I said, many threads with all the details, many cars below 3000 lbs.

Thank you Danglerb i am aware. I don't want to lose my hatch glass or other glass for lexan or gut the interior of the car. It will be used on the street mostly and occasional DE days. I plan to focus on the motor and its cooling, the suspension, and brakes and keep it nice and comfortable with AC but make it more fun with a better power to weight ratio.
Seems the easiest route would be to transplant a later motor..
10 pounds per HP is the goal, not a loud uncomfortable tin can for a Porsche 928. 911s are more suited for that.

[924CarreraGTP]

I was going for kinda the same thing. Just lighter, but not a fully stripped race car. My interior was basically still intact at 3250lbs. I could have gutted door pockets, seats, etc. Plus my car still had all of it's original lights. The fog lights could have been dumped for a few pounds too. I pulled the spare, jack, and tools, but I even considered pulling the hinged battery door. I imagine with some serious work I could get a 928 down to maybe 2,900lbs or less, but it would be a stripper at that point. My friends 944 race car had the inner door structures cut out, and the doors still worked perfectly. Things like that would drop weight in a big way. It would be cool to build a standard 928 race car, but I'm stuck on the 4.7 liter cars. To me the 4 speed auto is the more robust unit in the 4.7's. I know automatics are not supposed to be race cars, but the autos are also cheaper and you don't have to chop up a rare 5 speed to thrash around and possibly destroy.