"Best" 928 for a first time owner

[lowpassat]

Hello all!

I recently sold off my other "fun" cars and have been looking at 928s. I started off looking at 944s but have been leaning more and more towards the 928.

Some background, I was a professional tech for many years. I don't turn wrenches anymore but have the tools and knowledge to work on my own cars.

So what I have been looking at is the price gap in maintaining a 16v vs 32v V8.

I can work on my own stuff, but I don't want this purchase to consume my free time and have myself ending up hating the car over the price/time to maintain it. Obviously I am going into this knowing that either choice has its ups and downs and that a 928 will come with a list of challenges.

I am working with a modest budget as well, so when I see a 32v car priced at 6k I cringe a bit knowing that there will be another 2-3k need on top of that.
A 16v car priced at 6k doesn't give me the heeby jeebies like its 32v kin.

So what would you guy recommend that a 928 newb get as his first foray into these cars?

[Landseer]

You've pretty much nailed it.

16V is much, much simpler. Non interference, easier access, less tempermental.

Particulary, the post-CIS USA cars using the LJet computer / electronic fuel injection, instead of the mechanical fuel injection.

80/81/82/83/84

Figure 3500 to 6000 for parts, regardless of year. Regarding parts, there are many cautions / some very weak parts like rebuilt water pumps are circulating.

Be sure to only buy from a supplier that has a high current reputation.

[SanDiego928]

I love my 81 - 3 years ownership - 3k purchase price (with redone dash, pod and seats) and around $1,600 for parts and tires = $4,600. All major maintenance was up to date when purchased. Missing was no heat, no air, no cruise, no radio, no tools and no spare.

Parts needed over 3 years has been radiator (used 928intl), rebuilt smog pump and rebuilt power steering.

[curtisr]

From the 2013-2014 excellence magazine's Porsche Buyer's Guide comes these thoughts:

Best Value: 1987-89 S4

Best Daily Driver: 1992-95 928 GTS

Best Driver's Car: 1978-1982 928

"The oldest, least powerful car here is the one we just might pick for pure driving enjoyment. The early 928 isn't going to win any awards for outright speed, brake-pedal feel, refinement, or lateral g's...but if you want unfiltered steering feel and the ability to drive it by its tail (think of it as a big German Camaro), you might like one...."

[Landseer]

Sorry, they can print whatever they want. Best value and best daily drivers are the Ljet cars 80-84. It is possible to find a low cost S4, but the refresh on them is more complicated. 84 USA auto is very un-loved, and were more made than other years. Makes it much more reachable on a budget.

Value and ease of driving is especially good with automatic. Less parts, more range of swappable replacements if need. And manual is pita in traffic when its synchros and clutch are working well.

Pre-83 is 3 speed auto, also a good choice.

Economical entry, low risk, less to go wrong, easier to fix when something does.

Caveate, the manual transmissions are much better after 84, mainly because folks messed up their early boxes due to poor clutch maint. Best hybrid combo is post 84 box into an 84/earlier car, straightforward swap but hard to find the later box.

[lowpassat]

Thanks for the input guys! I think the 83-84 928s might be the sweet spot for me. Now I just have to find one........

[whatudrivin]

Don't rush into buying one. Take your time looking for the best deal you can find. You may have to travel to another state to pick up that perfect car. Make sure you get a PPI from someone who is familiar with 928s. But most of all good luck! Can't wait to see pictures of what you end up with.

[tmpusfugit]

The 32 v engines seem to be the popular cars in the Houston area. There are only about 4 16v owners that I know and only 1 or 2 that participate in any of the usual 928 events. There are more like 20+/- 32 v guys that are active in this area.

Like Landseer I favor the 16v late model cars. I have had 3 16v's but have also wrenched on maybe 10 or more of the 32 v cars. So, my experience is limited and maybe biased in regards to what I like. As others have suggested it is far better to not rush into buying something just because of price or color or model or whatever. I have rushed into buying all 3 of the 16v engined 928's and I paid too much for all 3 of them, considering condition and the like. But, I did better on the last one than on the first 2. All that said it is best if you can find a seasoned veteran of 928's to guide you along and help you avoid some of the common pitfalls.

Let me list a few of the common pitfalls just as things to be aware of as you proceed;
1)it was running fine when it was parked xx years ago 2) the AC just needs a bit of freon 3) I am sure the timing belt and water pump were changed in the last xx months/miles/years so all is good there 4)the auto transmission works perfectly, or at least it did when it was parked xx years ago running, (naturally) 5)the 5 speed manual box is absolute smooth and shifts perfectly (when parked running xx years ago) 6)the paint just needs a bit of buffing Porsche never clear coated these cars 7) I am sure it only needs a relay for xxxx to work perfectly 8) Fred, over at xxxx Porsche dealership always worked on this car, he knows everything about 928's and really wants to buy this one himself but he is a little short this week 9) I know the odometer always worked perfectly so it must have failed after the car was parked, running, under that tree out back. I am certain the 20,000 km's it shows is right. 10) these cars don't have a timing belt, they use a chain that doesn't require replacement. Fred, over at xxxx Porsche dealership told me that, and we already know he is the expert....

And yes, in looking at maybe 25 of these cars for sale in this area over the last 5 years all 10 of these quotes are pretty much verbatim from Craig's List or ebay or local ads.

Me personally, I am still looking for a low mileage '84 USA manual with no sunroof or an '85 Euro 5 speed with no sunroof and no rubstrips. I am currently driving an '84 auto with a new leather interior, had about 75k miles when i bought it, has a reasonably well done repaint, a lot of new parts like new drive shaft, new valve body in tranny, new radiator, new hoses throughout, new belts, new water pump, new timing belt, new starter, new springs, new shocks, 4 new tires, extensively cleaned up underside, a lot of other new parts, on and on. The fellow I bought it from had a bit over $18k in the car, but had never driven it a mile. He had gutted the dash, cut out a bunch of the wiring harness to the instrument pod etc.....I paid $2400 for it, and as a non running '84, that was too much in today's market for what was really a pig in a poke, no matter what the PO had spent on it. By the way, the new water pump had been in the car for 5 years and never driven, immediately leaked on startup. But, I have done all the work needed so far, and I have logged nearly 10,000 miles in the last 3 or 4 years on it, and it always got me home, so far....and it is fun, and I have a complete conversion package on the shelf to make it into a 5 speed, as soon as I have a spare $2500 or so to have Greg Brown do his magic on the transmission....

[Cannonball996]

I have had a few different 928s, both 16v and 32v... my take, they are older semi exotic cars that are at that age where a lot of stuff wears out. dont expect a "steal of a deal" or a quick project on a budget.

[tmpusfugit]

Originally Posted by Cannonball996

I have had a few different 928s, both 16v and 32v... my take, they are older semi exotic cars that are at that age where a lot of stuff wears out. dont expect a "steal of a deal" or a quick project on a budget.

I will second that motion, but I am more frustrated by electrical connections that corrode, electrical connectors that fall apart when moved, wires that short out on their own in hidden places, bad plastics bad rubber bad seals, fuses that corrode at their points of contact, relays that are overly complex, expensive, and subject to failure. As far as true wear I don't really find my issues much related to wear, more like bad design work originally. Thinking of the water pump in particular as well as AC compressor, motor mounts, coatings on the cam drive gears, odometer drive gears, and a few bits like that.

I have replaced all the wheel bearings, all the rotors, the rack, all the idlers, and other rotating parts, but all those should be expected as cars age.

The other stuff, not so much. It irritates me considerably to have a long list of things needing repair that gets longer, not shorter, every time I touch the car...things like sunroof, cruise control, rear hatch release, console switches, AC, interior lights, alarm system, speakers, mirror control system, on and on. Petty crap that should be easy to repair, stay working or at least work when properly adjusted with good/new parts. I know they all can work, I have had them working, and they are properly adjusted or set up per the manual etc.... and yes, some good amount of this is due to just aging, me and the car, but I have had other cars (American) of the same period and had very few of these sorts of issues. And no, I am not holding American cars up as the gold standard....they have their own problems too...of course I had best stay off my experience with English cars circa 1948-1972. They make me like my 928 far more.....

[lowpassat]

I have noticed that perception is not reality when it comes to pricing these cars. The market currently seems to be made up of cars that have several problems, deferred maintenance, along with the other problems you guys mentioned but they sellers are all asking $6000 or more.
I admit that I am a total newbie to the 928 but I've spent my fair share of time around cars and know all to well the trap of buying a car on the cheap and then spending twice what its worth to make it a good car and am not falling into that trap again.
Am I out of line thinking that a well sorted 83-84 should be around $7000?

[whatudrivin]

Porsche 928 s Coupe 2 Door | eBay

Just found this on ebay after a quick search. Haven't look on craigslist yet. I'm sure this would need general maintenance but it looks to be a good start if you like the colors/features. I would want more details and someone to lay eyes on the car to get a good idea of what needs done on it. But keep looking too.

[neil30076]

Tell us where you live, maybe a local owner can show you the differences, for example I have an 81, 84 Euro and 86 ( pre S4) so a comparison is easy.
And Yes, a well sorted 83-84 is a good choice, even better if its euro

[Danglerb]

Its not a simple this one is better, most of the better depends on what the owner wants and condition of the specific car.

Newer models tend to be easier to find in great condition, but have a strong premium on cost.

What is important to you?

Cheapest to buy and own, the "value" car IMHO is an 84 auto, not all that exciting to drive, but still the heart of a Porsche and all of the looks.

Most fun in massively increasing order of cost, 5 spd, Euro S, blown, GT, and on top a Greg Brown stroker.

Best garage queens, anything totally original with insane low miles.

Most expensive, and there are always reason for the cost beyond dates etc, GTS and GTS 5 spds.

My own preference, pretty much stock US 83 5 spd no sunroof, 85 Euro S 5 spd on a medium weight reduction diet and getting a hot rod treatment on motor, should be slightly scary to drive.

Cars that need repairs are almost never discounted for even the cost of used parts to make the repairs, cheap to buy, more expensive to make into reliable cars.

I don't believe its practical to repaint a 928. If the paint is too bad for you to live with minor fixes to it, find a nicer car. Paint is the most expensive, most difficult to replace item.

[uBoat Commander]

Originally Posted by tmpusfugit

...
1)it was running fine when it was parked xx years ago ...

40 years of buying/selling cars, and that line still cracks me up. It is on par with the advertisement that reads -

" 460 Engine, bored, stroked, balanced, blueprinted, 13:1 compression, new Weind blower, quick change rear, Nitrous, runs low 6s, ...babied, never raced."

or...

"Was a $70,000 car when new"... Who cares?

or

"Doesn't run, I'm sure it is something simple to fix".. and it is for sale by an auto mechanic

or my all time favorite -

"PERFECT CONDITION, except for blown engine, worn tires, a little rust (needs floors) and trans is missing."

I do agree with the statement above regarding other makes of cars (American). This is the first brand of car (Porsche) I have ever worked on that had complete failure of simple systems for no other reason other than age. Power windows, power mirrors, seats, all just stop working, where an american car 3 times as old simply does not have these issues. The dashboard is embarassing

[honerboys]

I ran across my favorite WHAT? ad years ago while considering buying some American muscle - it went something like: 1969 Camaro SS 396 4 speed - no engine , no transmission, no wheels $7000 - huh?

[lowpassat]

I've put a WTB ad up in the classifieds. I have about $5000 in cash right now, a couple thousand more after the 1st of the year. So I can either buy a car that needs a little work now and work on it over the winter, or just wait for a more sorted car after January. Nothing in a 500 mile radius really catching my eye. Maybe if people see there is a cash buyer out there something will shake loose.

Any other sites I can check out other than here, Rennlist, craigslist, and the big car sites?

neil30076, I live in Denver, CO. I went and looked at an 83 the other day and it was an honest car in need of work. Major turn off was filler in the bottom of the left front fender, missing front spoiler, cracked/broken front bumper, and not the best paintwork on that left fender. All the maintainence was due immediately, 80k on its OG timing belt I imagine by the wear on the drive belts. Car was dirty and needing a complete detail. Cheap Kumo tires were about gone. I passed.

[davetr]

il sell you my 83, runs n drives fine, needs paint, int, windshield,

[lowpassat]

Originally Posted by davetr

il sell you my 83, runs n drives fine, needs paint, int, windshield,

That's a long way to go for a car that needs restoration. Thanks for the offer though!

[uBoat Commander]

Porsche 928 - Classifieds - Claz.org

Remember that the most simple parts on a 928 are stupidly, unreasonable expensive.

If you plan on a wallet-restoration (just purchasing everything you need / paying others) there is no such thing as a good starter 928. My humble opinion of course.