Time for a minor (or major?) rebuild (LONG)

[Opelotus]

Well to make a long story short, my driver's side cam carrier gasket started leaking again this past weekend, to the point where I get a good plume of burning oil smoke at idle when warmed up. Add that to the fact that my driver's side head gasket has been seeping oil externally for awhile, and I think it's time for an overhaul.

The engine currently has ~100k on it, and I performed a minor rebuild about 4 years/~35k ago which included;
-timing belt/Laso water pump/tensioner rebuild + replaced idler and tensioner pulleys
-resealed oil pump
-front crank seal
-cam carrier gaskets/rear cap gaskets + all the front cam flange seals and o-rings
-intake refresh/replaced fuel hoses

More recently (~10-15k ago);
-oil pan gasket (cork) + motor mounts
-Porkensioner install

I'm sure I've forgetting a few things, but you get the general idea.

Anywho, my plan is to pull the engine if possible/feasible in my home garage and set to work pulling it apart. Before I get to that point, I am going to do a compression test to pinpoint any issues that require attention while I'm in there. I don't necessarily have any major concerns here but I want to be THOROUGH.

My main goals are to address the following. This list will probably grow as I think of other items to add to it.
-head gaskets/resurface head
-valve guide seals
-inspect/service valves and valve seats
-inspect cylinder walls for scoring
-water bridge gaskets/o-rings and thermostat, heater hose outlet elbow gasket
-timing belt/inspect water pump and Porkensioner
-inspect camshafts and lifters
-cam carrier gaskets, silicone rear cap gaskets + all flange seals and o-rings
-silicone oil pan gasket + possible stud kit
-replace cam and oil pump drive gears (worn past the point of re-coating)
-replace misc coolant hoses, heater valve, radiator hoses and coolant

There are some other odds and ends which need attention along the way, such as a partially stripped alternator mounting bolt hole, etc.

My first question is, pending results from the compression test, do I go as far as inspecting rod bearings, main bearings, cleaning pistons and inspecting rings?
I really want to be thorough in addressing anything that may need attention while it's all apart NOW, and avoid any further internal repairs for as many miles/years as I can. I have read from other member's experiences that the bearings usually do not require service for a good long time, but I'd rather inspect them now for peace of mind and before I throw lots of $$$ worth of gaskets and parts on top of them.

[stepson]

I have replaced rod bearings on two separate cars with 130K+ miles on them. Both times I was sorry that I wasted the effort, but I felt that while I was there........well you know.
The original rod bearings had very little to no wear as I pulled them to inspect them. There is just something about putting a used part back like that into an engine that just never felt right to me, so I replaced them. If I were you, I would not worry about the engine lower internals and concentrate specifically on the upper end.
Caveat: If you've been having any specific problems or concerns with the lower internals of the engine, then by all means. Otherwise, I say leave it alone.

[Opelotus]

Beyond having bought the car 5 years ago at ~60k with practically no service records, finding an abnormal amount of metal present on the magnetic drain plug early in my ownership (that hasn't been a problem since), and having been run hot (not overheated) a few times due to radiator issues, I can't think of anything else that's a cause for concern. The engine has been pretty solid and doesn't make any abnormal noises. I change the oil regularly and do my best to keep it running well.

Originally Posted by stepson

There is just something about putting a used part back like that into an engine that just never felt right to me, so I replaced them.

I'm the same way. If it's a used part and it's in my hand, chances are it gets replaced. I have been burned on several occasions with this car and others where I should have replaced something but didn't. And since these internals are buried deep and require great labor to access, I'm thinking I'd better be safe than sorry.

Let me ask you this. Say I check the rod bearings, and they have enough wear present to warrant replacement. What's the likelihood that the main bearings may also be bad? Conversely, if the rod bearings are good, can I assume the main bearings are good?

[Landseer]

Be certain its the head gasket leaking before you go to all the trouble.

When that fat oring at base of mickey mouse ear cover leaks, it runs down the head joint. Consider re-doing this part of the job, ie resealing cam at front drivers side, before diving in.

[Opelotus]

I'm positive it is the head gasket leaking unfortunately, as the leak was still present after replacing all the cam gaskets/seals/o-rings years ago (that was the highest point on the engine that oil was leaking from, right near the LF corner of the block where the oil passage is). Aside from making a bit of a mess, that was the only issue with the head gasket, no intermix of fluids and no compression leakage. I left it alone since I had just slapped fresh parts on the engine all around. Kept an eye on it and it didn't get any worse. The passenger side has developed a slight wetness in the opposite corner (RR) where THAT head has it's oil feed, with nothing farther up the engine leaking.

[stepson]

Originally Posted by Opelotus

Say I check the rod bearings, and they have enough wear present to warrant replacement. What's the likelihood that the main bearings may also be bad?

Conversely, if the rod bearings are good, can I assume the main bearings are good?

I replaced the two sets of rod bearings during the oil pan gasket replacements, and in my experience with these engines, I can tell you that I have not seen a rod bearing that actually warranted being replaced. (not that it doesn't ever happen)

In addition, I have helped another owner during his complete engine overhaul. His rod bearings were fine and his main bearings were even better. No wear evident whatsoever, but again they were replaced. (but not by necessity)

I'd have to recommend leaving the crank and rods alone, just based on what I have seen. Others with much more experience may tell you something else. YMMV

[Opelotus]

Originally Posted by stepson

I'd have to recommend leaving the crank and rods alone, just based on what I have seen. Others with much more experience may tell you something else. YMMV

I suppose I really don't mind leaving the bearing as they are, so long as I have some indication that they are in good shape. It would be nice to avoid splitting the block to check the mains. If I remove the rod caps for inspection, do the nuts need to be replaced?

[fraggle]

When I did my rebuild I didn't touch the bottom end at all. I do wish I had been able to do the rings, though, as my nice tight motor, all cylinders at 194 or 195 psi cold tends to burn some oil at full throttle and high RPM.

My head gaskets were DONE, one side measured 100psi the other 145 to 165 psicold.

[Opelotus]

I got my hands on a compression tester, planning on performing that test next week when I get back from vacation. Hopefully I don't find anything too crazy!

[stepson]

Originally Posted by Opelotus

I suppose I really don't mind leaving the bearing as they are, so long as I have some indication that they are in good shape. It would be nice to avoid splitting the block to check the mains. If I remove the rod caps for inspection, do the nuts need to be replaced?

Yes. Rod cap nuts are a one time use only item

[Opelotus]

Originally Posted by stepson

Yes. Rod cap nuts are a one time use only item

Noted, thanks!

I'm hoping to check compression tomorrow if all goes well.

[Opelotus]

So! Got my hands on an OTC compression tester and set to work. Removed the fuel injection and fuel pump relays, pulled all the spark plugs and held the throttle open. Did not add oil to the cylinders (dry test).
The engine was cold and hadn't been run in about 4 days. Here are the results:

#1 = ~195 psi
#2 = ~195 psi
#3 = ~190 psi
#4 = ~190 psi
#5 = ~205 psi
#6 = ~197 psi
#7 = ~190 psi
#8 = ~193 psi

Do those numbers seem a little high? Should I do another test at operating temp?

[stepson]

If those numbers are correct, I wouldn't even THINK of doing anything inside the engine.

[1980-928]

I have the same problem. With an oil leak on left front, it would get on the exhaust a little and smell as it burned. It would also leave about a 2 inch oil drop when the car was parked. The cam seal was the first thing I replaced, but it still leaked. It has always been dry around the cam housing. I was under it while it was running and could watch as the oil dripped out of the side at the head gasket.
I pulled the whole motor (100,000 miles) all the bearings and rings were still in the middle range of tolerance.
Learn from my mistake, pull the heads, have them resurfaced and looked at by a good machine shop. Put in a new set of head gaskets and call it a day. I have the motor rebuilt and ready to put back in. I'm still worried after I start it up the leak will still be there, Good luck

[Opelotus]

Well then, you guys have put my mind at ease! It's looking like I won't be digging in to the bottom end after all.

Only remaining problem is the logistics of pulling the engine, considering I may be losing my garage space soon, and I don't have a hoist/stand to use yet

That being said, I may have to rip off the driver's side cam housing and replace just that paper gasket for the time being. At least then the car will be usable until I figure out a more solid plan, which may mean putting off the project until the spring unfortunately. It's not ideal, but I've got a few things in the works and the timing of this project is not great

I'm really looking forward to tearing into things but I want to do it right the first time, which means I'll need plenty of time to take it slow.

Anyways, I'm getting in touch with Roger tomorrow to get some parts lined up.

Thanks for the advice and stay tuned for updates!

[1980-928]

You can pull the heads off with out taking the motor out. The motor is not easy to get out. Then you don't need a engine lift and stand.

[stepson]

Originally Posted by Opelotus

That being said, I may have to rip off the driver's side cam housing and replace just that paper gasket for the time being. At least then the car will be usable until I figure out a more solid plan, which may mean putting off the project until the spring unfortunately. It's not ideal, but I've got a few things in the works and the timing of this project is not great

I'm really looking forward to tearing into things but I want to do it right the first time, which means I'll need plenty of time to take it slow.

Anyways, I'm getting in touch with Roger tomorrow to get some parts lined up.

Some advice from someone who just replaced the cam carrier gaskets with the engine in the car: DON'T!!!

First: the motor mounts bolts have to be removed so that each side of the engine can be raised enough to remove and replace the cam carrier for that side. If you do decide to do it with the engine in the car, buy at least 4 gaskets because you will probably destroy at least one per side trying to fit the cam carrier back to the head.
Second: it took me 2 full days to clean off the old gaskets from the head surface while the engine was in the car. I'm not a particularly speedy worker, but I'm by no means slow. The gaskets on my car appeared to be original and were a total PITA to get completely off with the engine in the car. YMMV
Third: There is not a tool in most weekend mechanic tool chests that would allow you to correctly torque the cam carriers with the limited space available to do so.
Fourth: Removing the bolts for the cam carrier can be a daunting experience because of the lack of room to fit a proper tool to break the torqued bolts loose.
Fifth: If a upper cam carrier bolt is dropped inside the cam carrier while reinstalling, you obviously must figure out a way to retrieve that bolt within the constraints of the limited space and visual capability. Those bast$%ds will hide from you and make you rethink your sanity. Better to have the engine out of the car so if one is dropped, you can look squarely in the hole with a light to find out which direction it went.

Removing the engine alleviates all of these roadblocks IMHO. It's probably a one full day job with the engine out of the car.

Good Luck!

[1980-928]

I cant speak to 1-4, but a magnet pick up helped me get those cam bolts that I dropped in. Its tricky even with the engine out.

[qdac]

I used paper sleeves cut from a 4x6 note card when inserting the cam carrier bolts on my US 81. This made the insertion of those bolts trivial.
In addition, I cut down a long 6mm hex key and epoxied it into a 6mm 1/4" socket to make a long hex key socket that was just the right length so that I could properly torque all of the cap bolts.
Removing both power steering hoses helped clearances quite a bit.
Note, however, that I only did the US driver's side (left side of car, distributor side) and I quake in fear of having to do the passenger side.

[Danglerb]

I have Wiha hex drivers with a retaining ring, but a dab of grease can also work.