928 Sunroof rear end not closing up

[foxint]

Hi Guys....

I have read some really good stuff here - thanks. Love it....

Now I have to ask about the sunroof. It is not working....my most pressing issue is: I have the sun roof moving manually, but when it moves forward the back portion remains down....I need to get it fixed before it rains....no garage (yes it is planned, but...)

Not being familiar I am not sure how it works....Seems like it "should" somehow lift up to be flush with the roof. But I cannot see how it works.

Do I have to take all the roof trim off??? Will not, but if not necessary will not.

(Aside - gearbox works; motor works; that's all I have worked out. But I need it closed before the rain. I do not need it 100% fixed, just need ti closed?)

Hope you can help???? I am 928 virgin having owned it for a month.....

Dan

[Crumpler]

Welcome Dan.
I'm seven years in to ownership and still a virgin.
Let's see if we can help before the rains come....

Here's the set up: two cables run from the roof to a little cog transmission and motor in the rear. If you are moving manually then you saw that already.
The roof is attached to a frame that slides on rails.
There are two pucks that regulate the up down and push pull. They are attached to those cables.

Retract roof about half way open.
Look for three phillip head screws under the front edge. Remove them and pull the inner cover forward and out.
This allows you to get to everything.
Ideally you then want to get the roof forward and remove hardware to reposition the roof into closed position (read before it rains). Then you can R and R the system at a later date.

[foxint]

Hi Mate

Thank you. I have been lurking on Pelican Parts for some time…but I am one of those guys who keep to himself. Easy to do in the Aussie Bush as I work from home and keep the Holy Trinity (me, myself and I) to keep me happy…

Thank you for the instructions.

Yes, I found the 3 screws and took out the inner cover. The gear box works and it turns, but I cannot turn it via the slotted screw – is that a problem? I took the motor and the gear box out.

The sunroof moves backwards and forwards, BUT…. the rear is not moving up to match the roof.

I cannot see or find if there is something that moves the rear of the sunroof up. But when I move the sunroof in the closed position the rear is still lower than the roof. Any suggestions

Thanks

Dan

[Mal81]

Hi Dan,

When I move the sunroof manually, I just twist the rubber "Transmission" that connects the motor to the gearbox. Once the roof is all the way forward, you --should-- be able to push up on the rear of the roof while continuing to twist the transmission, and it will begin to hold it in place.

If you have time before the winter rains set in, check out Leo's write up on sunroof repair here (may have to scroll down the page a bit):
**MOST Common 928 Issues AND Fixes**

[Crumpler]

Ay Dan-o!
Picture As above
Loosen the rear of the two hex bolts on the puck on each side then push up as needed.
If you need the front to go up you tighten those recessed flatheads in the actual sliding frame.

It does not have to be perfect, remember the engineers put a drain in each corner for your pleasure

But my experience is that if you strive for perfection you will have the other problem--
It will get hung up and scratch your paint!

[foxint]

Hi Mate

I did read the "Most Common 928 Issues - it was good. I read it twice but could not find the exact fix.

Thank you:

“Picture As above
Loosen the rear of the two hex bolts on the puck on each side then push up as needed.
If you need the front to go up you tighten those recessed flatheads in the actual sliding frame.”

I am confused: Loosen the rear of the 2 hex bolts on the puck….

*I am assuming the puck is the silver-grey-black elliptical shaped thing - sort of like a boat
*Loosen the rear of the 2 hex bolts. This has totally confused me
*The elliptical thing (when the sunroof is closed) does not sit on anything. I can put my finger between the puck.

(I think the puck is 928.564.045.42 Gate Guide).

I am obviously stupid as I was unable to affect this instruction.

I have taken off the Gate Guide and it would appear.....if someone can confirm, I will need to take off the roof to properly insert these...my gut feeling is it/they may have come off something.

(Photobucket stopped allowing 3rd party postings. So I have uploaded the photo to my website...first time...so it may not be good - sorry)

Regards
Dan

[foxint]

[Mal81]

Hi Dan,

Your sunroof mechanism is identical to mine (1981 ROW model).

The cross screws attached to the sunroof tabs are what you adjust. It looks like yours are fully tightened down with the pucks (gate guides, boats) out of adjustment. It also looks like they once lived in another position for a long time... you might see if you can get the tabs in their original orientation for a quick fix.

Anyhow, if you loosen them a bit, and the hex bolts on the bar running across the bottom of the sunroof also, you will be able to fiddle the sunroof fully closed.

See warnings from other posters about the paint. Your immediate goal is just to close it fully. You can always adjust those later to have the motor do the work for you.

[foxint]

Hi Mal81

Thank you.

You have a ROW 1981 model…so like mine…great.

“Anyhow, if you loosen them a bit, and the hex bolts on the bar running across the bottom of the sunroof also, you will be able to fiddle the sunroof fully closed.”

I have now taken the gate guide out (interestingly it is made by Rockwell with the number – I think – 640 643 607)

I am obviously thick….may I ask 2 more questions??:

1. where are the “hex bolts on the running bar”
2. See my photo of the outside side of the gate guide. Note the pin (other side is a screw). Mine was fully screwed in and I still got it off. So I am assuming one unscrews it, insert something in the channel, then screw in to stop “the thing” from coming out….what/how??

Getting dark here…

Thank you
Dan

[9two8]

Here's a handy how-to that might be useful...,

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzvFQlOLayP8djYtOEF3VVA0OWs/edit?pli=1

Ken
80 928 S
5 Speed

UK

[JK McDonald]

Hey Fox - One of the many problem areas I had when I bought "Miss Purdy" (1984) and then "Lady in Red" (1985- sold) was the sun roof. Both cars had been dead in the water for many years with a laundry list of the typical 928 mechanical and electrical problems. Don't be discouraged - it just takes a while to sort out what ever is broken, twisted off or simply inoperative.

In both cases - my binding sun roof turned out to be from a broken Gate Guide (item #15) attached to each side of the sun roof panel. There are also two very long flexible spiral drive rods or Guide Shafts (item #17) that push and pull the sun roof from the rear mounted drive motor. On the opposite end of each motor spiral drive rod (Guide Shaft) is a slipper/foot that must be attached, in good condition, well lubricated and adjusted properly.

Once I replaced the broken Gate Guide and Guide Shaft - lubricated everything with a very light grease and adjusted the opening and closing point - the sun roofs have been working fine. * One other point - I found that if I occasionally add a very small amount of grease to the inner edge of the sun roof cut out when the sun roof is open - it's roof seal releases and closes better.

https://www.google.com/search?q=928+porsche+sunroof+mechanism&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWj4nE_PDUAhXI7IMKHex4DO8QsAQIKA&biw=1138&bih=582&dpr=1.2#imgdii=xJFSmcl5eXEnAM:&imgrc=_fG36uiuOPWbQM:

Good Luck, Michael

[Mal81]

Fox,

The hex bolts (4) are on the long bar that that goes across the width of the sunroof. For some reason, my sunroof only works when there is a bit of 'play' in those bolts (not fully tight). You will need to use some Locktite on the bolts and screws once you feel good about how everything is working.

You've probably got this all figured out by now, but if not, a little theory of operation might be helpful (others will probably correct me if I've got some errors):

That bar across the sunroof pushes and pulls the sunroof backwards and forwards. There are two guides attached to the bar that slide along the channels that are also attached to the cable running to the motor and transmission. These guides need to be exactly parallel to each other (adjusted by removing the transmission to take tension off the cable) in order to pull the sunroof smoothly.

The 4 bolts are attached to hinges that allow the sunroof to move up and down at the very last as the sunroof reaches the end of its run.

The Gate guides hold the sunroof into position when closed. There are tabs that move from the lower track to the upper track - you've probably noticed that there is a 'gap' (a gate?) in the upper track. The crosshead screws attach the sunroof to the gate guide, and they must be adjusted -evenly at each end of the width of the sunroof- in order for it to fully close. My screws are too long, and I put a washer on each one to stop them from binding against the track. Your crosshead screws look like they were living in another position (wear on the sunroof tabs in your photo) for a long time. I would start by trying to return them to that position and see if it won't close.

Note: Those plastic cushions on the gate guide tabs -the 'slippers' that JK referred to in his post- are an important piece in the whole operation. My sunroof, like in JK's experience, wouldn't work properly until I replaced these. They don't cost very much - less than $20 US for the pair. I think they have them in stock here at Pelican.

As that long bar is the only thing that is actually acted upon by the motor and transmission, everything else depends on friction -or the absence thereof- and the shape of the gate guides themselves to do their magic. Note posts by Leo and others about cleaning and lubricating the rails and cable.

Adjustment is a slow process. I've been messing with mine for months off and on, and I still have to 'help' my sunroof closed at the very end of its run by pushing up on it - especially when parked. Oddly, it will close just fine when I'm on the move. I'm just sooo close, I'm afraid to loosen any of the screws and bolts. LOL.

[honerboys]

mal81 - could the closing when moving and parked difference be electrical? - as in the engine is revved more when moving and is putting out more amps - try closing it while parked but with the engine revved a bit - i've seen this on other systems in this car - if it closes while revved check and clean your switch and other electrical connections to sunroof (fuse, wire ends) - cleaning the switches made a big difference in how my windows and sunroof and seats operated - and yes adjusting the sunroof is a painstaking process - once you get it right tighten up those screws good - i put a little nail polish over the heads to "lock" them

[Mal81]

Hi Honerboys,

Most likely, I need to replace all the user serviceable parts in the alternator/regulator, as it isn't putting out enough voltage at idle. I've thought about replacing the bracket and swapping in a Japanese unit and calling it done, but seems a bit sacreligous