Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 944 Turbo and Turbo S


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Leak :(

Got the car done started just fine...but under pressure there is a coolant leak some where on top of the cross over pipe, probably in the heater valve area (sigh).
Can't see it from the top of the car, and burnt to many appendages by now reaching in around the hot exhaust parts. will let it cool down and pressurize the cooling system tomorrow and see what I find.
Thinking of renaming Maddog to hanger queen.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-21-2018, 02:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Had to take the fuel rail off, take the intake manifold off (again), also had to take off the cycling valve and the ICV.
Found the leak by pressurizing system to 10psi.
Leak was happening in 2 places the bottom of the vent screw and bottom of the hose that takes coolant to the engine block.
See pic



It then ran down the side of the engine block and dripped down the back at the fire wall, finally ending up at the cross over pipe. Which initially made me suspect the heater valve.
See pic




Tightening the hose clamp on the hose going to the engine block fixed that one.
Now the right thing to do would have been to take the vent screw out check for deformation in the crush washer and the mating surface where it goes in, but noooo I had to try the "just a little tighter" on the vent screw.
Y'all can guess what happened next....
Yup broke the screw barf !



any hoo new one on order, it is a weird one M8 with a 1mm thread hollow screw.
Going to make a temp from AL or copper tomorrow so I can finish testing the rest of the cooling system under pressure.
I also get coolant from the fastening hole for the intake manifold 1 and 2 you can see I have put 2 bolts in there temporarily to test the system. I guess as long as the bolts holding the intake runners in place keep it from leaking its OK ?
I don't think any is getting into the cylinders.



BTW my reservoir cap leaks at 7 psi, got a cheap one from the auto store supposed to be 16 psi, but leaks at 10psi. The original is supposed to be 150 Kpa approximately 21.7 psi.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-22-2018, 09:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
In the Fires of Hell.....
 
kdjones2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,864
Garage
Looks like some "good" problems to have...

My experience is that you will have to go in once or twice and re-tighten the coolant hose clamps to eliminate all drips and such over the next several months.

Coolant should NOT be coming out of those threaded holes. Sounds like someone drilled those out too deep. I would make sure to seal the threads with RTV or similar to make sure that you don't get leakage.
__________________
NASA/PCA Instructor
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG, 3120 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
1987 944S - Restored salvage title, ready to live again

Last edited by kdjones2000; 07-23-2018 at 07:43 AM..
Old 07-23-2018, 07:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Thanks Keith,
Will do, I am surprised, as I have owned the car since new. Maybe when work was being done on it. The threads are good all the way from the top, so it wasn't to just make the thread longer to care of stripped holes.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-23-2018, 08:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 375
my experience is bad with the local expansion tank caps. Just buy an OEM, Behr, I think. Not that expensive. Good work, er except the bleed screw
You should be getting pretty adept at taking the intake on and off! BTW, the intake will come off with out removing the fuel rail.
__________________
Bruce P.
1988 951 Alpine White, AutoAuthority chip, HRE custom wheels, 10 speaker panels, Schnell short shifter, M030 sways, Koni Sports
"You're the best I ever had" --JJ Cale
Old 07-23-2018, 06:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
In the Fires of Hell.....
 
kdjones2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,864
Garage
And I bought a brand new Behr from the dealer, and it failed immediately. I was shocked that I was getting coolant coming out of the tank after a track session; I replaced it with one from a FLAPS and haven't had that problem again.

It sounded like there was a bad run of the Behr's that were made around the time I bought mine, so maybe I was just unlucky...

Point is, this is a common issue.
__________________
NASA/PCA Instructor
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG, 3120 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
1987 944S - Restored salvage title, ready to live again
Old 07-23-2018, 07:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
hmmm, well I ordered a Behr with the vent screw. Will report back on its ability to hold pressure and dependability.
Bruce,
I took the fuel rail off with the intake as it opens up the area where the coolant was running down.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-23-2018, 08:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Lesson of the day:
Use distilled water to do your cooling system testing with, NOT actual coolant.......
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG

Last edited by soxnail; 07-24-2018 at 04:43 PM.. Reason: correction of languge use
Old 07-24-2018, 10:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Second lesson:
If a hose does not leak or look cracked/frayed leave it alone.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-24-2018, 04:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Another day of chasing leaks....
Found 2 more. 1 at the bottom of the hose that goes to the coolant hard pipe running across the exhaust manifold see pic



The next one was a royal PITA !!
its in the connection of the heater valve to the engine block with the "Bunny ears" thermo valve. That is a pain to get to. Any way got it off cleaned it up ordering gasket for it now. With so many onese and twoses order the shipping costs are piling up.
After cleaning see pic.





Bruce looking at the intake manifold I don't see how you can take it off without removing the fuel rail as the injectors are inserted through the intake manifold ??

See pic
Sox



__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-24-2018, 07:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
In the Fires of Hell.....
 
kdjones2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,864
Garage
I would use a healthy amount of form a gasket #2 or silicone on that gasket to make sure that it doesn't leak again.

It's got its own sealer on it, but you can never be too sure on that one. And yes I agree - a royal PITA to deal with on a Turbo car.

One tip: Make sure to put all of the original washers / Adell clamps and washers on the bolts when you put it back together, as the bolt lengths are set up for having those on it. If you remove some things, the bolts may bottom out in the holes before tightening fully.
__________________
NASA/PCA Instructor
'88 951S - with LBE, Guru chips, 3Bar FPR, 1.3mm shimmed WG, 3120 lbs, 256 RWHP, 15 psig boost
1987 924S 944 SPEC racecar - '88 pistons/DME, short 5th
1987 944S - Restored salvage title, ready to live again

Last edited by kdjones2000; 07-24-2018 at 09:00 PM..
Old 07-24-2018, 08:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 375
The injectors are seated in the intake. They come right out with the intake. Done it many times.
Of course you still have to disconnect the fuel lines and injector connectors and unbolt the rail from the engine ...
__________________
Bruce P.
1988 951 Alpine White, AutoAuthority chip, HRE custom wheels, 10 speaker panels, Schnell short shifter, M030 sways, Koni Sports
"You're the best I ever had" --JJ Cale
Old 07-25-2018, 04:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Yah 12 hours at 12 psi no leaks !!.
Put the gasket in the engine block to heater valve. Put a bead of rtv 650 red on both sides of the gasket before installing. Also the heater valve while not leaking, was not holding vacuum so replaced it too.
Definitely don't want to do this again any time soon.
Thanks y'all.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 07-30-2018, 07:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Posts: 118
You donít actually have to remove the fuel lines or the injectors from the fuel rail to take the intake off. I just loosen the 4 bolts that hold the fuel rail down and gently pull the whole, assembled fuel rail out in one piece. You can move it far enough toward the passenger side of the car that it will clear the intake without binding up the fuel lines. You have to be careful not to bump it too much or one of the injectors will pop out, spilling some fuel. So, donít do this with anything but a cold engine, and with the negative battery terminal disconnected. You can also potentially crack the pintle caps. But, Iíve done this many, many times, and it will save you a lot of effort.

Or, maybe you were being facetious and I just didnít get it the first time.

Last edited by mweinst; 09-14-2018 at 07:52 AM..
Old 08-08-2018, 01:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 32
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by soxnail View Post
Another day of chasing leaks....
Found 2 more. 1 at the bottom of the hose that goes to the coolant hard pipe running across the exhaust manifold see pic




This little hose is frequently damaged by crushing or tearing it while rotating an oil filter wrench down there, and it looks like that is what happened to yours. There isn't much room between the hose and the filter so exercise care when removing the filter. These hoses have a formed 90 degree bend with a different diameter on each end and are hard to find locally. So, I always carry a spare one in the trunk

Last edited by Spring44; 08-08-2018 at 12:37 PM..
Old 08-08-2018, 12:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Mweinst I was not being facetious, I mistook the "take of the fuel rail". I normally call removing the rail when I take the the 4 bolts off and bungee the rail out of the way.
Spring44 I use 1 inch coolant hose, just expand the one end by inserting a cone shaped metal socket into it and warming it up with a heat gun. Slip it on while its warm and somewhat supple and let it mold back to the shape of the outlet.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 08-10-2018, 08:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Posts: 118
Soxnail - Ok, then weíre on the same page. Sometimes people are being funny with their comments and I donít pick it up. Just a long day, I guess!
Old 08-10-2018, 12:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
Cr@p
The power steering pump is leaking at full right turn.....
Guess its rebuild time, Rennbay I would venture?
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 09-13-2018, 06:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
911tracker85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Park Hills, KY
Posts: 1,486
I need to take my 951 DE car to the shop and pressure test. I find I lose about a pint of coolant on each 20-30 min track session. does not seem to lose coolant under street driving.

thought I found the cause and tightened those hose clamps. but at last track event, still lose coolant.

but broke the clutch at that last event, suspect a broken fork finger. but won't know until I dig into it this winter.
__________________
Bob Cox
84 928S, Ruby Red linen/brown interior - preferred DD
85 911 Targa, White Gold/brown int - retired from track.
86 944 turbo my new DE/track car.
78 930 clone project car.
Old 09-14-2018, 05:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
soxnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Laguna Vista
Posts: 1,257
The pressure developed in street driving is less...lower rpm most of the time.
Here is a test I do.
Attache the pressurizing equipment, run the car till its at operating temp, then pressurize to 12 psi or so. With the car and coolant hot the pipes are softer and joints etc. Will expand. This should show you the leak point/s.
Sox
__________________
"Little problems always come back and bring bigger friends with them".
1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
All stock with shimmed WG
Old 09-14-2018, 08:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:06 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.