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-   -   87 944 turbo wheel fitment (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/1009578-87-944-turbo-wheel-fitment.html)

Cuse2 10-05-2018 09:45 AM

87 944 turbo wheel fitment
 
Hi,
I am new to this, i just got my 1987 944 turbo and i am wounding if anyone could tell if Porsche cup 3 18" wheels will fit.
They are 8.5 x 18 and 10 x 18.
On car right now is 15x 7 and 15x 8 Fuchs wheels.
Also if i will need a spacer and what size spacers if needed.and what size tires can i run max.

Thanks for the help cory

kdjones2000 10-05-2018 10:13 AM

I don't know how you or the PO fit early offset Fuchs onto a late offset car, let alone got 15" wheels to clear the brakes.

Cory, much of the information you have stated above looks wrong. Take a wheel off and look at the markings on the backside of them and report back.

Cuse2 10-05-2018 11:39 AM

Thank for looking. This is some pictures of the wheels. Hope you can see. Just going by what the PO told me. I have not done anything to the car yet but oil change.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767186.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538767291.jpg

1blk968 10-05-2018 12:13 PM

Your brakes look different to me than my 87 turbo.
[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/949/4...850e290b_z.jpg20180427_180711 by Jeremy Mayne, on Flickr[/IMG]

Makes me wonder if someone converted it to early offset suspension and NA 944 brakes. I can't quite see the caliper, but they look like they might be NA style. Also, are you sure you're car is an 87? 86 had early offset suspension, but as mentioned above, I don't think those Fuchs would clear actual turbo brakes.

If any of that is the case, I would say the Cup 3 wheels would need some hefty bolt-on spacers to work.

Cuse2 10-05-2018 12:23 PM

Jeremy, mine does not have the turbo calipers. When i looked at the calipers after i got it. it made me wonder if something was not right. Do you know if i can just get a set of turbo calipers and swap them out or is it a major overhaul.
Thanks for your help.

kdjones2000 10-05-2018 12:33 PM

Something is very wrong here.

What is your VIN, and have you verified that it is for a Turbo car, not an NA?

My guess is that someone dropped a turbo engine into an NA car, so your suspension is not right, transaxle may not be right. What does the front of the car look like?

Cuse2 10-05-2018 01:09 PM

I checked the vin on Pennsylvania DMV site and it says it's a turbo. And i have the service records from the 1st owner to now with pictures of when it was new. Only thing is it has been repainted by the last owner from silver to blue.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538773313.jpg

kdjones2000 10-05-2018 03:38 PM

Anything in the records for when they decided to change the running gear from Turbo to NA?

Here are some of the concerns:

1) NA brakes would imply that you have NA spindles and hubs, not Turbo specific ones.

2) Your brakes are not designed to be able to handle the extra HP of the turbo engine, so you will have increased stopping distances, more brake fade, increased wear, etc.

3) The rear axles are early offset, which means that the suspension was swapped from an early offset car. The brakes are NA, so the entire suspension likely came from an NA. That is how you are able to run early offset Fuchs on the car.

4) 15" wheels will not clear Turbo suspension/brakes. The stock setup for Turbo cars is a 16" wheel for this purpose. Your front spindles are early offset, and likely from an early NA car. Are the control arms aluminum? It seems so since the brake cooling baffles for the turbo brakes are mounted onto them.

5) What diameter is the sway bar? I doubt it is the same size as for the heavier (and thicker) turbo car.

6) What transmission is in the car? Hard to tell this, as the code is stamped onto the top of the housing. If it's an NA transaxle, then it's not as strong as a turbo transaxle, and you may break your ring and pinion.

The car looks nice, however. :)

Cuse2 10-05-2018 05:30 PM

Thanks for all the help. Here are some more pictures.
The front sway bar is 26.2 rear 18.2 why would you want to change turbo suspension just to fit wheels? Also could they have just changed out the calipers so the wheels could fit?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538788663.jpg

Cuse2 10-05-2018 05:39 PM

Also i found no records of the suspension swap or when the original turbo wheels were replaced.

kdjones2000 10-06-2018 07:51 AM

That suspension came from an '86 NA car. It is not stock to yours.

The spindles aren't as strong, the spacing of the bolt holes for the struts are slightly different.

Why somebody would do this? I have no idea....

Cuse2 10-06-2018 10:36 AM

Could you tell me what all needs replace to get it back to factory. Or would it be easier to upgrade to a coilovers and big brakes. Also is it just the front that you see or the rear also.
Again thanks for all the help

Cuse2 10-06-2018 12:22 PM

Just found a local car lot with an 86 turbo that has an blown engine. For $1000.00 how compatible are the part. Do you think this would be a good way to go or replace with new 87 parts.

kdjones2000 10-06-2018 04:34 PM

Those would all go over well. You would end up with an early offset car, but would at least have turbo running gear.

Some minor differences:
- 86 spindles aren't quite as strong as 87+ ones.
- Your 15" Fuchs won't fit anymore. Stock ones for the '86 turbo have special offsets and are 16", compared to 911 ones.
- Caliper piston diameters are slightly smaller for the front.
- No ABS if the option was on your car (unlikely).

See if the brake master cylinder has a cylindrical piece on it. This should be on there as a proportioning valve for the turbo brakes. NA's don't have this valve. The master cylinders are also different between the NA and turbo. Make sure you have a turbo MC.

1blk968 10-06-2018 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuse2 (Post 10207250)
Just found a local car lot with an 86 turbo that has an blown engine. For $1000.00 how compatible are the part. Do you think this would be a good way to go or replace with new 87 parts.

Getting those 86 Turbo parts would certainly get you back to Turbo spec, but if you're determined to run modern offset wheels, you would still have to use big spacers because the 86 is early offset. Doable, but one more expense. If you could find late offset Turbo running gear, modern wheels would fit better, plus you would have returned the car to proper offset. Which given the increasing value of these cars might be money better spent.

Cuse2 10-07-2018 02:11 AM

Guys,
Thanks for all the help will let you know how things turn out.

DannoXYZ 10-08-2018 11:31 AM

Would be best to get '87+ suspension with late 52.3mm offset. Then you can run those Cup-3 18" wheels.

For record, early 1985.5 944 Turbo had square dash AND 15" wheels.
I have personally fitted 15x7" Phone Dials to my '86 951.

The clearance issue isn't diameter, it's offset of the spokes. To clear 951 bigger brakes, the spokes have to be offset to the outside more. This is why 911 Fuchs of any size will NOT fit '86 951. Optional 16x7/8" Fuchs that came on '86 951s were special 951-only items with more spoke-clearance (even though mounting-surface was still 23.3mm offset). Part# 951.362.115.00 and 951.362.117.00

Cuse2 10-08-2018 04:52 PM

Found some good prices on 87 parts on ebay could anyone let me know what all needs replaced to get me to a total 87 turbo suspension. Just to make sure i don't miss anything. Thanks again

azbanks 10-08-2018 05:31 PM

There are significant differences between the NA models, the 86 Turbo and the 87+ turbo models.

You should look for 87 + turbo parts. You could use 86 turbo parts but you will not be able to replace the ABS parts if you go 86 Turbo.

As others have mentioned, the 86 Turbo and the 87 and up turbo models are a different offset.
The 87+ models had a different offset to support the ABS systems. They use a different front control arm, different spindles, brakes, etc.
You are going to want basically the entire front suspension from an 87+. If you buy the complete front struts(including brakes) and control arms from an 87+ turbo you should be good.

kdjones2000 10-08-2018 06:27 PM

Don't forget late tie rods are needed.

For the rear, you need the trailing arms and everything attached to it.

You are also going to need turbo torsion bars.

You are going to find a better deal here on Pelican. Just go to the Classified section and post a WTB request. They can help you out better, IMO...


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