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-   -   Bringing back a 1987 Turbo (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/1105469-bringing-back-1987-turbo.html)

The Glademister 12-24-2021 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdjones2000 (Post 11550028)
4) One experience I have had with these cars is that if the speed sensor is too close to the flywheel or gets damaged, that the engine can cut out and you get a no-start until it cools down. Re-check your gaps and condition of the sensors.
Good luck...

I thought I was getting really good at adjusting those flywheel sensors. Rather than use the Clark's method of sticking a 8mm washer to the speed sensor and adjusting the bracket, I've been measuring the distance from the edge of the opening on the bracket to the tooth on the flywheel. Add 8mm to your sensor length and that's where you need to lock. The trouble on this 951 is the lower 6mm caps screw on the bracket is somewhat stripped and super tight. I was able to get the upper 6mm caps screw loose and effect adjustment. That was accomplished by cutting a 6mm hex key down. I went in yesterday to swap sensors from my running 924S into this 951. I decided to try another gap method. Removing the spacer washer from the speed sensor and moving the bracket down till it touched a tooth. Pulled the sensor, put the spacer back in and tried to start. It must have landed between the teeth as the flywheel locked and probably mushroomed the speed sensor which was stuck. Without being able to remove the bracket with the damaged sensor, I was forced to wiggle it until it broke in half. Hoping that it would drop to the bottom of the bell housing, I turned the crank by hand but it wedged and the flywheel locked up. So it looks like I get to pull the exhaust, starter, slave cylinder and bell housing. Great time to check the clutch disk and for RMS leaks. Maybe I'll find that cut down hex wrench that dropped in the timing hole also...

The Glademister 12-24-2021 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Glademister (Post 11551717)
So I did investigate the airbag module and there was some electrical tape on the wires near the connector. Remove that and two wires were cut. I've butt spliced those back together but still no start.

Before the DME sensor fiasco, I did try a jumper on pins 3 & 4 on that airbag connector. That did turn off the airbag warning light but didn't effect the no start condition. I also discovered that both passenger airbags were disconnected but connecting those had no effect.

kdjones2000 12-25-2021 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Glademister (Post 11555713)
I thought I was getting really good at adjusting those flywheel sensors. Rather than use the Clark's method of sticking a 8mm washer to the speed sensor and adjusting the bracket, I've been measuring the distance from the edge of the opening on the bracket to the tooth on the flywheel. Add 8mm to your sensor length and that's where you need to lock. The trouble on this 951 is the lower 6mm caps screw on the bracket is somewhat stripped and super tight. I was able to get the upper 6mm caps screw loose and effect adjustment. That was accomplished by cutting a 6mm hex key down. I went in yesterday to swap sensors from my running 924S into this 951. I decided to try another gap method. Removing the spacer washer from the speed sensor and moving the bracket down till it touched a tooth. Pulled the sensor, put the spacer back in and tried to start. It must have landed between the teeth as the flywheel locked and probably mushroomed the speed sensor which was stuck. Without being able to remove the bracket with the damaged sensor, I was forced to wiggle it until it broke in half. Hoping that it would drop to the bottom of the bell housing, I turned the crank by hand but it wedged and the flywheel locked up. So it looks like I get to pull the exhaust, starter, slave cylinder and bell housing. Great time to check the clutch disk and for RMS leaks. Maybe I'll find that cut down hex wrench that dropped in the timing hole also...

That's a clutch job.... sorry to hear. I use some cardboard on the bottom of the sensor, that way you don't have to do anything, just leave it in there.

You really need to simplify things in order to isolate the problem. Jumper out the KLR, Airbag, DME relay, and alarm. Then see if you have spark/injector pulse.

Happy holidays!

Cappt 12-25-2021 05:11 PM

When I bought a similar intermittent start/stop 944 it turned out to be a bad wire from the battery positive to the fuse box. The wire had actually melted inside from being shorted out (snow/water sliding off the windshield) moving the wire bundle around by hand resulted in shutting off the running car.
You going to do the bell housing mod? Then you can set the ref spacing with a feeler gauge before sliding the bell housing on.

The Glademister 12-26-2021 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdjones2000 (Post 11556752)
That's a clutch job.... sorry to hear. I use some cardboard on the bottom of the sensor, that way you don't have to do anything, just leave it in there.

You really need to simplify things in order to isolate the problem. Jumper out the KLR, Airbag, DME relay, and alarm. Then see if you have spark/injector pulse.

Happy holidays!

Thanks for the tip on the sensor gap. I'll need to get the offending bits out of the bell housing. Now fighting frozen exhaust bolts.

The Glademister 12-26-2021 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappt (Post 11556907)
When I bought a similar intermittent start/stop 944 it turned out to be a bad wire from the battery positive to the fuse box. The wire had actually melted inside from being shorted out (snow/water sliding off the windshield) moving the wire bundle around by hand resulted in shutting off the running car.
You going to do the bell housing mod? Then you can set the ref spacing with a feeler gauge before sliding the bell housing on.

That power lead to the fuse box is worth investigating.

I haven't heard of this bell housing mod. Do you have a link?

Cappt 12-26-2021 07:29 AM

It's just cutting or grinding out the two holes the sensors drop through in the housing. Then the housing can slide on/off without moving the sensors. Here's a pic. Some don't like the idea of it. It's your call.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/457162-my-new-944-reference-sensor-dillema-need-some-advice-porsche-gurus.html#post4484084

The Glademister 12-27-2021 05:53 AM

About 8 hours to remove the exhaust and get the clutch housing off. Rusty exhaust, wastegate bolts and clutch fork pin were the worst. Unfortunately I had to break the sensor bracket to get the housing off. That lower caps screw would not loosen. I even tried spot welding a 6mm hex socket to it. The pressure plate looks OE and I'll bet the friction disk is toast. Once I get those and the flywheel off, I should have good access to that caps screw. Oddly, this 951 has Lindsey solid motor mounts which are helpful in that you don't have to support the engine with the torque tube off. But, those won't allow you to tip the engine backwards to assist removing the clutch cover. That is really tight. I'm considering a Stage 1 clutch kit but haven't decided on the OE steel flywheel or aluminum. I love the aluminum flywheels but the one I installed on my '87 924S had a smaller dimension so getting the reference trigger pin length set proved to be troublesome.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640616351.jpg

nize 12-27-2021 08:50 AM

i've heard of the risk of of an aluminum flywheel shattering (serious injury!) so unless you're going to install a scatter shield ​i would keep the stock flywheel and go with the tried-and-true aluminum KEP pressure plate and 930 clutch disk:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/260928-clutch-r-r-waterpumper-porn.html

The Glademister 01-01-2022 06:27 PM

Removed the clutch and as expected, it will be replaced. The rear main seal is leaking as well. With good access I was able to loosen that 6mm caps screw with the bracket stump. The OE flywheel friction surface looks good. I'll most likely re-use that with a SPEC Stage 1 clutch. But when I was cleaning up the clutch housing I discovered that it's apparently a NA part. The flywheel is definitely a 951 part however. I also noted that the flywheel has 3 pins.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641093871.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641093871.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641093871.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641093871.jpg

Cappt 01-02-2022 07:05 AM

Interesting, will you be resurfacing the flywheel? That third flywheel pin was for the diagnostic port.
I'm following along because I'll be doing a clutch with my son on his new to him '87 turbo soon.

The Glademister 01-03-2022 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappt (Post 11563399)
Interesting, will you be resurfacing the flywheel? That third flywheel pin was for the diagnostic port.

Yes, dropped the flywheel off at a machine shop this morning.

I get the pin for the diagnostic port but what about the two pins that are in the same plane? That wouldn't be for the reference sensor? I've got an early 944 flywheel and that just has a single pin.

Good news is the clutch fork is the correct turbo part but the fork pin will need to be replaced. Note the indentations from the failing needle bearings.

An earlier parts order included the shifter bushings so I was looking at that. A PO had tried to make a short shifter on the turbo car by cutting of about 3". So I grabbed the shifter from my '83 944 parts car which was missing the shift rod pin, ground the welds down and moved the pin to the correct length shifter.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641232087.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641232087.jpg

nize 01-03-2022 08:51 AM

any reason why you're not going with the KEP pressure plate?
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/uplo...1137267541.jpg

The Glademister 01-03-2022 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nize (Post 11564310)
any reason why you're not going with the KEP pressure plate?

Cost. The SPEC Stage 1 pressure and friction plate kit is the best deal I know of.

nize 01-03-2022 09:07 AM

that clutch fork needle bearing failure is common, a good solution is to use self-lubricating brass bearings which blaszak can modify for you, he also off-sets the center of the hole for the pin to make the fork stronger and compensate for the worn out fingers where the center bearing contacts and wears out the fork, so you can re-use your old fork and get more life out of it.

seeing as how you're capable of doing your own machine work maybe you can do this yourself?

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/uplo...1640734298.jpg

tubegearhead 02-01-2022 09:49 PM

Have you double checked your speed and reference sensors? Switched them?

The Glademister 02-02-2022 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubegearhead (Post 11594592)
Have you double checked your speed and reference sensors? Switched them?

Multiple times. Read the thread for detailed timeline and repairs.

The Glademister 02-12-2022 09:01 AM

The drive train is on hold until I get the funds for clutch and exhaust.

But today I decided to do something about the sill cover fitment. I reconditioned both sides front and rear several months ago. Sun and time has shrunk those covers and both sides no longer would mate properly front to back. So I fabricated patches to join those as the ends were dangling. Cut two 3" x 6" pieces sheet metal. make a smooth bend to match the sill cover contour. Make a sharp bent top and bottom for lips to capture the rubber sill covers. Wire brush, clean and paint with self-etching primer. I overlapped the rear cover 4" because the drivers side rear cover was missing a sizeable chunk near the joining end. Carefully drill 1/8" holes with the patch in place and rivet with 1/8" pop rivets with backing washers. Note that the rear cover has a rib about 2/3 up so the top hole needs to be a little lower. I'll paint with Trim Black to match the rubber at a later date.

With these I was able to eliminate the troublesome rear body brackets on the front covers. I tried bending those several different ways and was never able to get a tight fit to the sill.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644688628.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644688628.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644688628.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644688628.jpg

nize 02-15-2022 11:41 AM

because they hang lower than the bottom of the car, those sill covers get scraped a lot (speed bumps, etc.) so i'd be surprised if they don't get dented up with the abuse.

The Glademister 02-24-2022 10:14 AM

The windshield on this 951 had a crack along the bottom and the seal was poorly fitted. So I move the decent windshield from my '83 944 parts car to this one. I'll wait until I get a new seal before I glue it in. The fit isn't too bad with a little extra space on the A pillars. I also had to clean up the DS windshield support. That was filled up with sealant and gunk so it wouldn't adjust.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1645729981.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1645729981.jpg


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