87 951 Wont Start

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 06:15 AM

I CHANGE THE CHIPS FOR A SET GURU CHIPS AND NOW MY CAR DOES START. IT CRANKS BUT THEN ITS AS IF IT SLIPS, AND THE THE SOUND OF THE CAR GOES FROM NON STARTING TO A SEW MACHINE SOUND EVEN WHEN I TURN THE KEY BACK TO OFF. I TURN THE KEY WITH THE CAR IN GEAR WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE CLUTCH AND I MOVES THE CAR FORWARD AS I TURN THE KEY, I CHECK THE TIMING BELT THUR THE LITTLE GLASS AND ITS STILL THERE AND SPINNING AS I'M CRANKING. THEN I TAKE OFF THE PLUG GOING FROM THE BLASTER 2 COIL TO THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP AND IS GIVING IT ALL THE VOLTAGE IT CAN THE THING IS THROBBING WITH POWER. UNTIL I DISCONNECT THE BATTERY IT WONT STOP.
HELP!!!!!!!!!

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 06:27 AM

The sewing machine sound is typically the timimg belt failure noise.

Are you sure you didn't install the new chip in backwards?

In case you don't know how they are installed, each chip has a little notch on one end. The socket on the board that the chip plugs into also has a notch out on one end. When installing a chip, the notches of both must be on the same side.

Installing a chip in backwards typically ruins it.

Rob

Britwrench · 10-31-2003, 06:27 AM

First of all, cut the big letters. It hurts my eyes.

What was wrong to make you install the chips?
From your novel and less than descriptive diagnosis, it would seem that the engine cranks and runs OR cranks at different speeds OR crank at different speeds and then runsOR runs and your can't turn it off with the key.

Is the engine a 951 or a 944NA converted?
If it cranks at different speeds there is an updated speed/reference sensor bracket to stop the problem.
If it cranks and doesn't start: does the fuel pump run and the injectors "click"?

More information required.

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 06:35 AM

soory for the caps. my job forces me to write in caps. but robm-951 i did install the chips backwards. i had europroduct chips in and replace them with guru's. installed the guru's backwards. call tech support and then put them in the right way. i then took my old chips and install them back in the right way. still no go. hey britwrench your right its a 944na converted to a turbo. don't know if it cranks at different speeds. but i know it doesn't start, but the injectors do click and the fuel pump is running when i turn the key. sorry for the vague diagnosis i'm a newbie

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 06:42 AM

the engine is a turbo thought i know that for sure i check the engine block numbers

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 06:47 AM

I am wondering if you have a bad section on your timing belt where it is missing some teeth. Turn the motor over by hand and see if the timing marks still match up.

Rob

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 06:55 AM

this may be the dumbest question but how do you crank it by hand?

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 07:05 AM

By putting a socket on the front crank bolt located inside the crank pulley.

You could also pull the upper belt cover off and have a look at the belt itself. If it really is making the sewing machine sound (I.E. no compression) I would lean towards the timing belt. You could also check for this by running a compression test, if that is more familiar to you.

Rob

Edit: timing belts can go bad when a motor is first cranked and will tend to strip off the teeth down by the crank.

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 07:10 AM

i will do a compression test. the noise goes from trying to crank and not starting to just like "metal tipping something while its stil spinning" even when i let off the key the nosie continues and the dies while a nosie somthing like when you leave the key in the ingnition and the car is off. that nosie does stop until i disconnet the battery (spelling suck today)

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 07:18 AM

Sorry, but it's kinda tough to really get an idea of the sounds that are taking place. (at least for me).

This as well may be a bumb question, but the car was running before the initial chip change (from europroducts to gurus)?

Also, is the sound you are hearing after the cranking stops, something like the turbo water pump still running? Or the fuel pump still running? Either of these could be just a relay problem.

Rob

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 07:23 AM

i'll try to send you a sound clip of the noise. i think i could have blown the a relay by putting the chips in backwards. that makes alot of sense. its a %100 restoration project so if i put a wrong part o well i got a new part on my car i'll log it in and keep going. the car it not a daily driver.

highboost951 · 10-31-2003, 07:54 AM

wow...um...let's see here....first of all, no need to waste any time with a compression check, just grab a friend and ask him to crank it over for you, you can watch the camshaft sprocket and see if it's turning. If noone is avail. just get a felt tip pen/marker and mark the sprocket through the eye hole. Bump the ign. and then check to see if it's moved.

Besides, the car obviously has compression if it moves when left in gear and is being cranked over...from what you're describing it sounds like your starter is toast.

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

i think i could have blown the a relay by putting the chips in backwards. [/B]

Actually, this wouldn't likley be the cause of a bad relay.

But the questrion still remains, was the car running before the chip change?

Rob

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 08:03 AM

YEAH BUT IT WAS STARTING HARD IT WAS A KINDA LIKE A CONSTANT DECLINE COME TO THINK OF IT. BUT AFTER TWO TURNS IT WOULD START. THEN 3 ONCE I CHANGE THE CHIPS IT DIDN'T START NO MORE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I TURN IT. ITS VERY POSSIBLE THE CHIPS HAD NOTHING TO TO WITH THE CAR NOT START MAYBE SOMETHING WAS ON ITS WAY OUT BEFORE THE CHIPS AND IT JUST HAPPEND TO GO ONCE I PUT THE CHIPS IN. I JUST PURCHASED THE CAR ALL I'VE DO TO IT WAS PUT A LUCAS OIL ADDTIVE IN IT, BOOST ENHANCER, AND CHIPS. I WANT TO CHANGE THE TIMING BELT ANYWAY SO I CAN HAVE PEACE OF MIND AND WRITE IT DOWN IN MY BOOK.

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 08:03 AM

soory for caps. its my job gotta break that habit

highboost951 · 10-31-2003, 08:04 AM

Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's very likely that you could have fried the chip and possibly the dme too.

STIFEKAT · 10-31-2003, 08:06 AM

how do i check to see if my i fried my dme

robm-951 · 10-31-2003, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by highboost951
Besides, the car obviously has compression if it moves when left in gear and is being cranked over

From what he said:

Quote:

I TURN THE KEY WITH THE CAR IN GEAR WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE CLUTCH AND I MOVES THE CAR FORWARD AS I TURN THE KEY,

It sounds to me like he is using the starter to move the car forward, so this wouldn't say anything about compression.

Rob

highboost951 · 10-31-2003, 08:14 AM

You're right, I just pulled an all nighter, no more posting for me today, until I get a nap at least. That's actually how I load stranded cars sometimes, pull the plugs and dme and crank away, forget the winch

highboost951 · 10-31-2003, 08:15 AM

dme relay that is... sheez