Mustang guy interested in 944 Turbo

[skmcobra]

Hey guys I did a search and found this forum tonight. I have been a Mustang guy for years and currently own a 97 Cobra which I have modded for road racing. However I have been partial to the 944 Turbos since my high school days. I was wondering what are the horsepower/torque capabilities of these cars with basic mods? What can a stock turbo put out safely. What would it cost to get a stock 944 Turbo over 300rwhp? I appreciate the help. Can't believe I'm even considering getting rid of my Cobra for one of these!

[legion]

First, let me say that Cobras are great cars.

The primary advantages a 944 would have over a Mustang are weight and weight distribution. A 944 weighs less, and it has a nearly 50/50 weight distribution front to rear. This makes the car very "neutral" in cornering, so that it neither understeers nor oversteers. I would guess that even a track prepped Cobra has a tendency to understeer.

A Cobra will always be a superior car in straight-line performance. The 944 (like all Porsches) really shines in the corners. You can carry more speed through corners (because of the factors mentioned above).

As for modding. For around $2000-$4000, you can bring a 944 Turbo up to about 350 rwhp safely. Lindsey Racing sells a $4000 kit for this that covers all the bases to safely do this.

Like any vehicle, the more horsepower you want, the more needs to be changed. How fast do you want to spend? Depending on how much money you are willing to spend, you can bring these cars up to almost any horsepower number. There are several paths to moving beyond 350 rwhp. You could wet sleeve the block to move to a larger bore. You could buy a larger turbocharger to push more air into the engine (but watch the headgasket). You could turbocharge a 3.0 liter, 16 valve S2 block. (Powerhaus did it, producing in the neighborhood of 540 rwhp.) Of course, we are talking about spending tens of thousands of dollars at that point.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Porsche, and have fun!

[AaronM]

Get one of each. I've got a 951 for "fun" and an S197 Mustang for everyday.

[JustinL]

I really like hanging out with the svt guys. Cool bunch! Every time they have a track day, I have to attend The Cobras are great cars and very reliable on the track even when modified. My 944TS has the stock turbo and original shocks and springs.

Here's what the fast group looked like at the last event after the first lap:



The car in front of me was holding me back:

[skmcobra]

Thanks for the replies guys. I found the 944 was about 2780 pounds compared to my 3360 pound Cobra w/o driver. I figured it had to be better in the corners due to a lighter front end. However I don't want to give up my go straight power. I still like to bang the gears at the drag strip every now and then. I read a thread on the svtperformance.com forum where a Cobra owner had a friend with a white 944 Turbo that was running low 12's in the quarter. I don't remember what all he had done to it, but I was hoping that the stock turbo could have the boost raised to get the HP to over 300 at the rear tires. Sounds like that may not be possible. And as for owning two cars...I don't think it's in the cards right now. My wife just doesn't understand the car hobby yet! LOL

[legion]

I think you'll be surprised at the acceleration of the 944 Turbo.

The factory 0-60 times is 5.9 seconds. I would imagine many Mustangs have similar 0-60 times. The difference is, that accelaration on a naturally aspirated V8 is going to be pretty linear. 0-30 is going to take about the same amount of time as 30-60. On a 951 the acceleration is exponential (these numbers are pulled from my posterior), acceleration is going to be more like it takes 4 seconds to go from 0-30 and 1.9 seconds to go from 30-60. So during that 30-60 part you are accelerating at an increasing rate...and much faster than any NA Mustang.

As an aside, I generally will not go wide open throttle in 1st gear, I wait until 2nd to preserve my clutch and tires....

[AaronM]

Originally posted by legion
I think you'll be surprised at the acceleration of the 944 Turbo.

The factory 0-60 times is 5.9 seconds. I would imagine many Mustangs have similar 0-60 times. The difference is, that accelaration on a naturally aspirated V8 is going to be pretty linear. 0-30 is going to take about the same amount of time as 30-60. On a 951 the acceleration is exponential (these numbers are pulled from my posterior), acceleration is going to be more like it takes 4 seconds to go from 0-30 and 1.9 seconds to go from 30-60. So during that 30-60 part you are accelerating at an increasing rate...and much faster than any NA Mustang.

As an aside, I generally will not go wide open throttle in 1st gear, I wait until 2nd to preserve my clutch and tires....

Road and Track managed a 4.9 second 0-60 from an N/A 2005 Mustang GT.

Even with the improved 951 transaxle, I wouldn't run mine at a drag strip. Seen too many grenaded 944 N/A transaxles for me to take a 951 to the drags.

To the OP: If you want a car that can do both, keep the Cobra and lighten the hell out of it (or trade the Cobra in on an '05 or '06 GT and add a Kenne Bell S/C for 450+ hp) and set up that car for the track. They reduced the front overhang a lot on the new design and the car is not nearly as nose-heavy as the older Cobras.

[skmcobra]

Originally posted by AaronM
Road and Track managed a 4.9 second 0-60 from an N/A 2005 Mustang GT.

Even with the improved 951 transaxle, I wouldn't run mine at a drag strip. Seen too many grenaded 944 N/A transaxles for me to take a 951 to the drags.

To the OP: If you want a car that can do both, keep the Cobra and lighten the hell out of it (or trade the Cobra in on an '05 or '06 GT and add a Kenne Bell S/C for 450+ hp) and set up that car for the track. They reduced the front overhang a lot on the new design and the car is not nearly as nose-heavy as the older Cobras.

True that the 05-07 Mustang GT's are better weigh ballanced, I think 52/48 now. However they are about 400 pounds heavier than the 94-98 Mustang GT's & Cobras. Mine has the factory aluminum block and heads so it is lighter than the 03/04 Cobra engine. Kenne Bell just announced a new 2.1 blower for 96-98 Cobras which are capable of up to 600rwhp. However I'd be on borrowed time with stock internals! Not to mention it is $3799 and there is no intercooler available...nor plans for one. As the car gets hot the HP would drop due to the supercharger forcing hotter air into the intake. I've read that twin screws and roots blowers aren't good for road course racing.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by skmcobra
I've read that twin screws and roots blowers aren't good for road course racing.

I would think that those would be the best types for road courses because they boost torque at low RPM as well. A centrifugal blower won't help you as much until the upper parts of the RPM range.

I'd forgotten that the older Cobras weren't supercharged. I've heard that an '05 or '06 with a Kenne Bell (intercooled) setup can best a "Terminator" Cobra both in handling and in acceleration but I don't have direct experience.

[ae1969]

SKM ........simple solution...

buy the turbo......and let the wife drive the cobra.

That way you can drive either one when you want to.

They are both truly different vehicles. I love the off the line feel the mustangs have........... but I also love the rush from the 951 when you are cruising at 60 mph.....and seconds later you are over 100.

P.S JustinL I signed up for the SVT day as well.

[nize]

[skmcobra]

Originally posted by ae1969
SKM ........simple solution...

buy the turbo......and let the wife drive the cobra.

That way you can drive either one when you want to.

They are both truly different vehicles. I love the off the line feel the mustangs have........... but I also love the rush from the 951 when you are cruising at 60 mph.....and seconds later you are over 100.

P.S JustinL I signed up for the SVT day as well.

The Cobras not exactly a family car for the wife and age 3 & 7 year old daughters. Planning to buy my company car in two months. If you guys have never driven a 2004+ Grand Prix, it has got to be one of the best four door sedans out there. Drives like a sports car, but rides much smoother. They make a gread dd.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by skmcobra
The Cobras not exactly a family car for the wife and age 3 & 7 year old daughters. Planning to buy my company car in two months. If you guys have never driven a 2004+ Grand Prix, it has got to be one of the best four door sedans out there. Drives like a sports car, but rides much smoother. They make a gread dd.

My friend has a 2000 Grand Prix and it's been nothing but issues. About 100,000 miles right now and the transmission's dying. The interior door panels are separating, the tail-lights and front turn signals hold large amounts of water, the radio's display died, and they've had to replace the heater controls and blower. All in a car with only 100,000 miles. They aren't hard on their vehicles either.

[skmcobra]

Originally posted by AaronM
My friend has a 2000 Grand Prix and it's been nothing but issues. About 100,000 miles right now and the transmission's dying. The interior door panels are separating, the tail-lights and front turn signals hold large amounts of water, the radio's display died, and they've had to replace the heater controls and blower. All in a car with only 100,000 miles. They aren't hard on their vehicles either.

That may be the case with a 2000 model, but I stated a 2004+. I've had it for three years since new and the only problem I've had is this year it had a water leak in a hard storm from the windshield which was fixed under warranty. My 2001 Ford Windstar has been a pure lemon and we bought it with only 23k miles. So far we've replaced drivers window switch, passenger rear window motor, driver's seat switch and motor ($600), windshield wiper motor, and the big one...the tranny! So glad I did my research and bought a bumper to bumper warranty.

[nize]

porsches used to come with a 3year bumper-to-bumper unlimited mileage warranty for free from the factory.

and 5year drivetrain/paint/chassis/etc. unlimited mileage warranty.

all free.

all factory.

[bleucamaro]

I came from a Mustang as well, a '96 GT w/ MM subframe connectors, Eibach's and AGX shocks, and Steeda 4bolt CC plates, and '03 Cobra wheels/tires (275/40-ZR17's). My stock S2 with 16year old shocks, bushings, and heavy wheels/tires, still outhandled the Mustang on an autocross course.

The modability of a 951 is pretty good, but they are a bit high maintnance.

I've put 20k miles on my 944 in a year and a half
and have spent about $2500 in parts for maintnance. The mustang, I just changed the oil and drove.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by bleucamaro
The modability of a 951 is pretty good, but they are a bit high maintnance.

I've put 20k miles on my 944 in a year and a half
and have spent about $2500 in parts for maintnance. The mustang, I just changed the oil and drove.

Your S2 is also 7 years older than the Mustang was. I think that most of the expense comes from the cars simply being old. I never count "routine" maintenance (plugs, wires, clutch, brakes, etc) when comparing reliability, but you're right that they will cost more to keep up.

[bleucamaro]

Originally posted by AaronM
Your S2 is also 7 years older than the Mustang was. I think that most of the expense comes from the cars simply being old. I never count "routine" maintenance (plugs, wires, clutch, brakes, etc) when comparing reliability, but you're right that they will cost more to keep up.

But you do need to take into account that the price of parts is about double for Porsche's. Also, Timing belts are a 30k mile service on the Porsche, and while you're in there, might as well replace rollers etc etc.

[skmcobra]

Well I've decided to keep the Cobra. Much cheaper to maintain it sounds like and you just can't replace the sound of a throaty V8! I'm going to try to lower it by about 200-250 pounds over the winter. Racing seats and aluminum drive shaft will be first things. Later on a tubular kmember and front control arms. I am currently looking for a used set of 17x9 Mustang wheels so I can throw some 275's on and rotate after each track event. Right now I have 245's up front and 285's out back on 10.5" rims. No way to rotate them big boys!

[nize]

go go 12mpg !