Need help, link to rennlist post, incentives....

Jeff Alton · 09:26 PM

Hey guys, here is a link to my rennlist thread. I need this fixed now!! The same incentives for wheels are available to pelicans as well!!!

Help me out!!!!!

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=334406

Cheers

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 09:36 AM

Hey Jeff,
If you have done pretty much every thing else, and it looks like it. Its time to look at the signal amplitude from the ref and speed sensors. Did you pick up a scope yet ? I found out that while the reference sensor circuitry in the dme is pretty tolerant the speed one is finicky. We need to look at the actual amplitude of the signals and you cant do that without a scope. I think you can get an inexpensive one for your lap top for a $100 or so. Let me know if you need a name and link to the scope vendors.
Sox
Ps. I don't know if you have a ref picture for the signals or not but here they are.

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 09:39 AM

Whoops sorry pics now

Jeff Alton · 03-02-2007, 11:20 AM

Thanks, I will go in search of a scope if I can't get it done today! Thanks for the pics, I believe I have those from my manual.

Thanks for the help!

Cheers

ae1969 · 03:43 PM

1st ....... If the injectors are firing forget about the reference sensor. It is gapped properly.

I will read the rest of your post.

ae1969 · 03:52 PM

Bad Ignition switch.

Everything you have done makes sense.

Check to see if you have 12 volts at coil while CRANKING. Not just key on.

If the DME and KLR were swapped and working you are correct it should ground out the coil so that rules out bad DME/KLR.

Jeff Alton · 03-02-2007, 03:57 PM

I will try that, but even with the key on and using a remote starter will not produce spark....

Cheers

ae1969 · 03-02-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
I will try that, but even with the key on and using a remote starter will not produce spark....

Cheers

Just check that you have 12 volts at the coil while trying to crank.

If you do then the dme is not grounding out pin 1 while the injectors firing...........so ignition driver is shot.

BUT you ruled this out by swapping dme/klr.

If you have 12 volts while cranking we will officially be going in circles.

So .......... with your posts and my above posts. If we still have not found it. You will have to go back and verify every point you have stated. Something is wrong.

pozican · 03-02-2007, 05:05 PM

Listen to ae1969 -- He's a god.

Jeff Alton · 03-02-2007, 05:47 PM

Okay, got the damn bracket off (4 hours of cutting and grinding). Re gapped my second set of new sensors, no change.

However, jumped pins 9 and 16 on the KLR and it starts right up!!! Woopee!

Now I just need to find out why the DME and KLR are not communicating.

I have the wiring diagrams and such from my workshop manuals so I am hoping it will not take too long!

There is lots of Ghetto wiring going on in the passenger footwell (thanks to all the previous owners!) so I am really not that surprised.

Thanks for the help guys!

ae1969 · 03-02-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
Okay, got the damn bracket off (4 hours of cutting and grinding). Re gapped my second set of new sensors, no change.

However, jumped pins 9 and 16 on the KLR and it starts right up!!! Woopee!

Now I just need to find out why the DME and KLR are not communicating.

I have the wiring diagrams and such from my workshop manuals so I am hoping it will not take too long!

There is lots of Ghetto wiring going on in the passenger footwell (thanks to all the previous owners!) so I am really not that surprised.

Thanks for the help guys!

Good old pin 9-16 failure.

Well if it was a bad klr then the swap you tried should of worked.

So this leads me to believe the harness plug may be shorting at 9 or 16. Those have a bad habit of grounding out at the harness plug.

you can drive with the jumper ........just no retard or knock control ........so dont go crazy.

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 07:24 PM

Ok now I am confused..I thought that you had swapped the klr and dme to another car and they worked. Jumping the klr pins works so..it means that the klr is not letting the ignition pulse thru. But if the klr works in another car....
Sox

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 07:26 PM

maybe bad connection

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 07:29 PM

quick fingers ae1969..

Jeff Alton · 03-02-2007, 08:27 PM

Okay, so lets recap (for my benefit

)

Car will run with the KLR 9 and 16 jumped. (KLR was tested in another car and a known good KLR was tested in my car)

I am picking up another known good KLR tomorrow evening to test again.

Do the 9 and 16 pin wires go anywhere else besides directly to the DME?

I have plenty of the connector pins, should I run new wires between the DME and KLR that go to pins 9 and 16?

Alex, if the plug is "shorting" how and where would I test that, and what is the fix?

Thanks guys!

soxnail · 03-02-2007, 08:49 PM

the ref sensor and the speed sensor goes into the dme box. They are multiplexed into the interrupt pins of the micro. The dme looks up various maps and produces the ignition signal. This goes into the klr pin 9 the klr looks at the knock sensor and the throttle position and boost level. It then modifies the ignition signal and sends it out to the dme via pin 16. The dme then drives the ignition coil. If you jump the the klr pins 9 to 16 then the car will run but the ignition will be retarded. Also the boost will be restricted. 0.2 bar. I know this is a little convulated, but the short answer is that more then likely there is a connection problem between the klr and the dme, but shorting pin 9 and 16 works and you have a good klr the the problem has to be between the pins going into the klr but after the connector ?
Sox

Jeff Alton · 03-02-2007, 09:15 PM

Okay, makes sense to me.

Should I run new wires between the DME and KLR? That is pretty simple to do.

Cheers

pozican · 03-02-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
Okay, so lets recap (for my benefit )

Car will run with the KLR 9 and 16 jumped. (KLR was tested in another car and a known good KLR was tested in my car)

I am picking up another known good KLR tomorrow evening to test again.

Do the 9 and 16 pin wires go anywhere else besides directly to the DME?

I have plenty of the connector pins, should I run new wires between the DME and KLR that go to pins 9 and 16?

Alex, if the plug is "shorting" how and where would I test that, and what is the fix?

Thanks guys!

Use a multimeter on the harness?

ae1969 · 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
Okay, so lets recap (for my benefit )

Car will run with the KLR 9 and 16 jumped. (KLR was tested in another car and a known good KLR was tested in my car)

I am picking up another known good KLR tomorrow evening to test again.

Do the 9 and 16 pin wires go anywhere else besides directly to the DME?

I have plenty of the connector pins, should I run new wires between the DME and KLR that go to pins 9 and 16?

Alex, if the plug is "shorting" how and where would I test that, and what is the fix?

Thanks guys!

Sorry I did not stick around last night. Wife wanted to watch a movie.......... the nerve!

Wire #9 is a shielded double wire (shielded by #10). I would not go off trying to replace any wires just yet. I have torn apart and created my own custom harnesses and let me tell you ........ you don't want to go there.

The fix is probably simple. The pins on the harness can wiggle out...... specially if someone has played with them before.

If you can undo the harness plug then you can check the affected pins (check 9 and 16) but also 21 on the dme when trying to start the car.

Wiggle... pull it .... etc. <- high tech description

Good luck.

After thought. Since a good klr/dme swap did not work either this possibility does not apply.......but another option for anyone else seaching. The tracks on the dme/klr can separate (solder). SO you get intermittent failures. It seems like a bad klr/dme but pushing it in out fixes it intermittently.
So kicking the dme helps.

........ for a while anyways.

soxnail · 03-03-2007, 06:56 AM

Ok more awake now..
Lets see:
1). you can jump pin 9 an 16 at the klr connector (right at the connector) and the car starts.
2) a known good klr does not work.
So do you have the klr apart. if so can you test by shorting the pins poat connector i.e on the inside of the klr?
See pic