water dripping from my exh. pipes..white smoke too..Help..

Jc924turbo · 06:52 AM

my 81 turbo started to have a quite a problem with water dripping from exhaust pipes; waste gate problem..?? if so,.. where do I start to look..?? the symptom started all of a sudden.. with heating problem.. the 924 turbo starts fine, runs fine in the beginning.of course there is white smoke coming out of the muffler...and then, when the car heats up a little,about a minute,, water drips from the bolt-joints inthe location, before the final muffler, and one before that one too.. it drips.. with white smoke pumping out of the final muffler, with water dripping.... even after the engine is off.. still drips.. for some time... with this, I've got heating problem too... water reservour gets a lot of pressure, so it whistles..ready to blow out..?? and this is before the car gets hot..??? strange.. I've gone through many cars in my life.. I'm 45 years old now.. never seen such a problem.. previous to this problem, I did have little toffee colored oil in the coolant, but I don't think it's a head gasket.. for in the starting of the engine, it runs fine.. as I read more and learn about these cars, I should have a bad oil pressure relief valve for this oil in coolant problem..(still have to get to it..)going back to my present problem.. as the car gets hot in matter of 5-6 minutes, it starts to ikle rough, and engine rpm starts to slow down,, as it wants to die.. and I have to gas more, to keep the engine running.. .. it seems to get clogged up with water in the exhaust... this happened in an instant.. not gradually... does anyone have any ideas where I should start to look..??I thought it could be the thermostat.. so I had it taken out.. but is same.. any input will be appreciated.. regular 924 guys told me to try this section..,, for there are more experts in the turbo technicalities.. your help is appreciated.. thanks in advance.. peace on site..

soxnail · 12-30-2007, 04:53 AM

Is it water or coolant ? If it coolant then my first guess is gasket.. The white smoke also supports coolant theory. The fact that the coolant is under a lot of extra pressure can mean combustion leak into the cooling jacket. If it is water the it should only happen right at start up and then dry up.
Sox

88BlueTSiQuest · 12-30-2007, 05:10 AM

The 931 is a different than the 951, so I'm just guessing here. Normally the first thing you'd want to look at would be the turbo, if they are water and oil cooled on those cars also. Bad turbo seal can cause it to pass water out of the exhaust.

Check your oil for the famous 'milkshake'.

If I were to venture a guess though, I'd say you have a bad head gasket or even a cracked head based on your temperature and pressure issues. Maybe you should do a compression test and leak down test.

Jc924turbo · 12-30-2007, 06:14 AM

Thanks guys.. I had the car for about 4 weeks now.. so I know some stuffs about this car.. I was driving on the freeway,,, and noticed my temp. gauge go up... doing 70-80 mph.. having fun with ricers..blowing them away... with speed and STYLE of porsche...that's when it happened.. I did not over do it to the point where something would get damaged.. when I saw the temp. gauge go up..(near red) I got off the freeway.. and let my engine cool off..etc.. of course.. it could be combination of problems.. well.. with my luck , it is possible........ so I had to put water in the cooling reservour... and I still have it in there..all my coolant is gone.. at this point..I figured.. it would be blown through the exaust pipes any way... I just never bothered to put any more.. any ways.. goiing back to my problem,,when I got my 931, was blowing little white smoke in the beginning of the start up.. then would go away.. and usually when I drive the car pushing the turbo.. at higher rpm.. etc.. I did lose some coolant in the past.. My guess is that.. what ever was making it lose the coolant, has really gone bad.. at once.. this is my first turbo.. and I don't know much about turbos... specially this model was only produced for couple of years..it's got oil and water cooled I think. the very early model that porsche put out..I know that not too many people out there know the car.. not a common 944 turbo. which makes the problem harder to solve.. but.. I know this is the best site to get help on this car.. chances are some one had this car before, and might have a good I dea of what this problem consist of.. but if turbo seal has gone bad... how would I get to it..??where to get the seal,, and to make that into my first place to fix..??

nize · nize's Garage

1) do a compression test on each cylinder. post your numbers on here.
2) do a leakdown test on each cylinder. post your findings on here.

you could get a compression tester for $15 at harbor freight;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95187

Jc924turbo · 12-30-2007, 04:32 PM

O.K... I'll take your advice, and will do all the testing.. and post my results... will take some time for me to buy testers.. and I'll let you know... how do I get to the turbo seals..?? I think I should check them as well while am at it..can any one give me the delatils to check the turbo seals..??? your input is appreciated.. thanks again guys.. was very helpful...

nize · nize's Garage

forget the turbo seals for now. check cylinder compression first.

schucks, napa, or any general car parts store will have compression testers for sale, and sometimes even for rent.

Jc924turbo · 12-31-2007, 08:20 AM

O.K... I'll go to the auto parts store soon.. I'll let you know the results.. it's a last day of 07,,, and have too many things in my mind.. resolutions not met.. etc... LIFE IN A FAST LANE.. WITH PORSCHES..?? MANY THINGS LEST BEHIND.. THIS YEAR.. Well..!! enough of my blues in E minor.. well I'm a musician too play guitar,,.. etc.. I'm feeling the blues of the last day of the year.. I'll get to my car problem... soon.. HAPPY NEW YEAR.. EVERY ONE... LET'S HAVE A WONDERFUL 2008.. Jc..

Jc924turbo · 12-31-2007, 10:13 AM

Finally got the tester ;; O.K..; the first reads; 77-78 or so.. not quite 80.. and there is no coolant or water in the spark plugs.. none of them.. for now.. I'll get to the other three.. and let you know the results.. thanks..

nize · nize's Garage

78 seems excessively low. are you turning the motor over at least three times? have you tried leaving the tester connected and sitting for 15-20 minutes to see if the pressure goes down over time?

Jc924turbo · 12-31-2007, 10:50 AM

well.. no.. I did not leave it long enough.. to see the leaks.. it's my first time so excuse my steps.. I'll do them again.. I'm only had twisting the hose.. for there is no space for the tools to fit.. or don't have the right toos to tighten the inlets right.. any how.. with 2; 70 or so .. 3,4; is about 40 or so.. but I'll do them again.. so see if I can tighten the inlets right.. just twisting the hose is very questionable.. what is the right compression suppose to be..??

Jc924turbo · 12-31-2007, 11:42 AM

Well... I did leave on the tubes in for 10- 15 minutes or so on each..and they hold the pressure..no drops what so ever...?? kind a low to begin with.. but there is no drops in the pressure..low psi might mean valves, piston rings.. and on and on.. but.. water being wasted like that would probably mean there is a leak in the turbo seals..???any more suggestions will be helpful.. thanks...

nynor · 12-31-2007, 07:00 PM

if i recall, the turbos on the 931's are not water cooled, just oil, so i doubt it is the turbo. you have a bad head gasket.

nize · nize's Garage

compression numbers should at least read close to each other across the board, so i would also assume it's a bad head gasket.

for the compression tester, do you have the rubber push-in type, or the screw-in type? the screw-in type that screws into the spark plug holes are more accurate.

Jc924turbo · 01-01-2008, 06:40 AM

my pressure tester is a screw in type.. but has the rubber hose between the spark plug fitting and the gauge.. with a pressur relief valve. when I re-did the fittings better.. (had to take off the turbo hoses) my 3,4 cylindes gave me a little higher numbers..; 45-47 psi or so..with absolutely no drop of pressure for 15 minutes..see.. my car drips water even after I turn off the engine..(I turn off at nite.. and I check in the morning.. still dripping a little..) weirddddd...STRANGE>> not a common problem at all.. I think I would like to check why is the water pressure builds so fast..almost immediately, as my engine goes on.. due to the intense pressure, water may be leaking out to improper valve/areas..any ideas anyone..??? thanks..

nynor · 01-01-2008, 07:49 AM

it builds the pressure so quickly because the head gasket has failed, thus the pressure from the compression is pressurizing the coolant system. the reason the two cylinders read low and the same is because the gasket has failed between them. it is your head gasket. take it apart. clean the surfaces. have your head resurfaced and new valve guides placed. replace your timing belt, as the 931 has an interference engine. put it back together. enjoy.

Jc924turbo · 01-01-2008, 08:08 AM

thanks.. I'll do that.. well.. another head gasket's out... do you think it's something I could do it myself..?? medium wrench skilled person..?? where is good site for me to review the work before I start..?? and all the parts and accessories i would need..?? etc.. do you think I should do some other work.. since I'm at it..?? to make my 931 better..?? minimum work vs. performance..etc..??your suggestions.. is appreciated.. thanks..

nynor · 01-01-2008, 09:04 AM

the head gasket on a 931 should be a piece of cake, compared to a 944. easier to time, no balance shaft belt, etc. i would do the water pump while you are there, i think it is about $50, at least when i did the water pump on my 924 years ago. i got a VW unit, as it is the same, IIRC. also, replace the belts, the cap and rotor and points (not sure if the 931 still has points), maybe R&R the turbo and replace all the rubber hoses: fuel, coolant, vacuum, everything. maybe look at the motor mounts.

nynor · 01-01-2008, 09:07 AM

also, if there was fluid leaking from the exhaust pipe itself, that tells me that one or more sealing gaskets in the exhaust system have failed. basically, getting the vehicle running right will net you 10% horsepower, i am betting. maybe more.

Jc924turbo · 01-26-2008, 05:03 PM

GUYS.... I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS STORY.. my brother came over friday of last week..to help me with my head gasket problem.. he is as bad.. as me with wrench skillss.. D level.. you know I'm about C- level.. anyways.. he broght his tool sets and a can of head gasket repair stuff.. He wanted to try the can anyways.. so I let him.. well it did work.. after we let it dry 24-30 hours.. etc.. well lasted 30 m9nutes.. and overheating started again.... so today.. a week later.. we try again.. to really replace the hg... we got all the turbo stuffs taken out... and some plummings.. etc.. got the cover off the crank case.. and as we were trying to get the head bolts off.. he goes..(SOME OF THE BOLTS ARE NOT AS TIGHT AS IT SHOULD BE..!!) WE FOUND THE PROBLEM... probably the gasket isn't as blown as we think it is.. we crossed our fingers and tightned alll the bolts nicely.. do the cover gasket with silicone... etc.. and put all back together.. and tok it off the road... and it drove better than ever.. less noise.. NO OVERHEATING OR DRIPPING OF COOLANT THROUGH THE ESHAUST.... FFFFIIIIXXXXEDDDD... WOW.. we got happy to stop the work procejure.. there.. before we would have broken something.. we were SCARED TO REALLY TAKE THE HEADS OUT.. ETC.. NOT CONFIDENT AT AAALLLL.. WE WERE THE HAPPIEST GUYS IN TOWN TODAY.. !!!got it fixed with minimum work..tHANK GOD.. WE DID NOT BREAK SOMETHING.. I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SHOW MY DEEPEST APPRECIATION TO ALL THE GUYS THAT GAVE ME INPUTS.. ANOTHER HAPPY 931 ON THE ROAD.. THANKS AGAIN... replacement would be favorable.. but with our skills.. we have happiness right here..