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1986 944 Turbo won't start

Hi All!

I have a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo that won't start when using the ignition switch, but will start and run great when you push/clutch start the car... everyone I know said it is the ignition switch... so, I tried replacing it and it didn't work... problem is I am not sure if I hooked up the wires correctly to the ignition switch as the cap was loose and when I tried to unplug it the wires pulled out... I guessed where they went and plugged them up... here are the markings on the ignition switch - 50(single pole), P(single pole), 30(single pole), X(double pole), 30(double pole), R(single pole) and 15(double pole)... there are 6 wires with different colors... not sure which one connects to which pole! Help! I just bought a coil thinking maybe that is the problem... before I replaced the ignition switch the car cranked and the engine was turning over, but it wouldn't start! However, I could start it when I got a push and clutch started it... Help! Does anyone know what color wires go to which pole on the ignition switch? Also, anyone know what my problem could be? Thanks so much all... my email is asazarsa@AOL.com.... Ardy
Old 04-08-2008, 04:39 PM
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Switch terminal R = 1.0 mm red&black wire
Switch terminal 50 = 4.0 mm red&black wire
Switch terminal 15 = 2.5 mm black wire
Switch terminal X = 2.5 mm yellow&black wire
Switch terminal P = 1.0 mm grey wire
Switch terminal 30 = 4.0 mm red wire

I think that the crank position on your ignition is not energizing the dme relay circuit. So when its on "on" position the relay is supposed to be on but the pull in circuit that works at crank position is not working. Replacing the coil will not do any thing.
The position "50" on the ignition switch supplies this voltage. I am pretty sure that this is the problem with your old switch. The new switch may be wired in wrong.
Sox
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:27 PM
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thank you soooo much!!

you are awesome!

I was on vacation and just got back and read your reply... I will try this tonight and see if it fixes it.... thanks again soooo much!!

Ardy
Old 04-22-2008, 11:41 AM
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I am looking at the switch and the wires and have a few questions:

- There are 2 locations that have the number "30"... one is a 2 pole location the other is a 1 pole location... which one do I use? You mention a 4 mm red wire should be plugged into "30" there is a single pole "30" and a 2 pole "30"

- "X" has 2 poles as well... you mention to plug the yellow&black wire to this location... which pole to I use?

- "15" also has a 2 pole location and a 1 pole location... which one do I use and if the 2 pole location, which pole do I plug the black wire into?

If you look at the switch you'll see what I'm talking about... Thank you Again!

Ardy

Last edited by aazarsa; 04-23-2008 at 07:52 AM..
Old 04-22-2008, 02:36 PM
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I am traveling at the moment. Will look at it when I get back.
Ps. I would not post my e-mail on the board.
Sox
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:46 AM
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thank you! I'll wait for your reply...

regards,

Ardy
Old 04-23-2008, 07:53 AM
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Ok looked at the schematic..here is what you need to do. (I don't want to pull my switch).
1) Get a multimeter and set it to continuity. It will beep when you touch the probes together.
2) put the ignition switch to off position.
3) Put one probe on "P".
4) touch the other to all the "30" points it should beep at one of them.
5) turn the switch to first click the beep should stop.
6) If it beeps on more than one pole of the 30 use the one that meets the above steps. If more than one does this behavior use either one. ( the other is probably for accessories). This is your 30 position.
7) Leave the probe on 30. Put the switch to first click. you should get a beep from "X" and "R". Test the "X" same way as above for "30".
8) "15" should test between 30 at ignition switch 2nd click .
This sounds a little complex but look at the picture below it should help. If you still have questions let me know.
Sox
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:04 PM
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thank you again!

I will try it... it does sound complex... I will try and let you know...
Old 05-05-2008, 07:15 AM
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Hi Sox,

Well, I followed your instructions and I feel confident I have all the wires hooked up correctly... I also bought a new battery and even replaced the coil and NOTHING!!! I can smell fuel as I crank the car over... It is still cranking strong and I have a good smell of fuel, but nothing... it won't start... I guess I am back to ground zero! I'm not sure where to got to next... I had bought a seleniod and am not sure if I should replace it as well... HELP!! What to next?

Again, thanks very much for your help so far :-)

Ardy
Old 05-06-2008, 05:11 PM
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Check your speed and reference sensor connectors.
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:01 PM
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Here are two threads that I posted on Rennlist (ahem!) a while back about «no-start» situations.

The first thread I posted in 2006 when I thought I had solved the problem:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=291967

The second thread here has the definite solution to the problem. It's been one year now since this final solution and I have had no problems startint the car since:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=359468

Hope this helps!
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:07 PM
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Hi Andre,

I checked the connection on both reference and speed sensors and the connections look good... I also wiggled and disconnected and reconnected them and still nothing... do you suggest I replace them?

Again, the care starts if I clutch start it and it runs great after... it also cranks over very strong, but won't turn completely over...

At this point I think I'll take it to a Porsche mechanic... I am not sure what to do next... I don't want to keep throwing money at it and replacing parts...

Regards,

Ardy
Old 05-12-2008, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aazarsa View Post
Hi Andre,

I checked the connection on both reference and speed sensors and the connections look good... I also wiggled and disconnected and reconnected them and still nothing... do you suggest I replace them?

Again, the care starts if I clutch start it and it runs great after... it also cranks over very strong, but won't turn completely over...

At this point I think I'll take it to a Porsche mechanic... I am not sure what to do next... I don't want to keep throwing money at it and replacing parts...

Regards,

Ardy
Hello Ardy,

I've reread all the posts in this thread and maybe you should look again not only at the connections at the new switch but also at all the wiring from the switch to the DME, DME relay, coil, battery, etc.

Andre
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:45 PM
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ok... I found the problem and Andre was right... it is the speed sensor.... I replaced it and the car started... now I have another problem! I didn't put the shim in as it fell off when I took the sensor off and now it has locked itself into the housing!! How do I get it out and have I damaged anything else? I should have never tried being a mechanic :-( Not sure how to take out the old sensor that is broke in the bell housing... I suppose I could drill and tap it and pull it out and try putting another sensor in... that is if nothing got damaged... I did hear a squeeling sound when the car started and then shut off... any suggestions or help would be very much appreciated... thanks again to all for your help! You are awesome!

Ardy
Old 06-01-2008, 05:40 PM
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the sensor reads a screw pin that sticks halfway out of the edge of the flywheel. as the flywheel turns and the pin passes the sensor it reads the magnetic fluctuation. if the sensor was too low, the pin could have contacted the sensor, which would have damaged the pin, the sensor, or most likely both.

you'll probably now have to remove the flywheel to fix this, which is basically a clutch job.

read this;
http://clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ign-02.htm
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:09 PM
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FINALLY!!!! OKAY!!! I managed to get the speed sensor out after much drilling and using a variety of tools... once I got the sensor pieces all out I sprayed electric part cleaner in the hole and cranked the engine several times without the sensors to get any remaining pieces out... there is an opening at the bottom of the bellhousing where all the pieces fall out... I replaced the sensors with the shim this time and the engine started up and runs better than before! :-) It only took me 6 months to figure this out and fix it.... joy! Thanks to ALL for your help and suggestions... sincerely... Ardy
Old 06-04-2008, 05:18 AM
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good deal, congrats !
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aazarsa View Post
FINALLY!!!! OKAY!!! I managed to get the speed sensor out after much drilling and using a variety of tools... once I got the sensor pieces all out I sprayed electric part cleaner in the hole and cranked the engine several times without the sensors to get any remaining pieces out... there is an opening at the bottom of the bellhousing where all the pieces fall out... I replaced the sensors with the shim this time and the engine started up and runs better than before! :-) It only took me 6 months to figure this out and fix it.... joy! Thanks to ALL for your help and suggestions... sincerely... Ardy
Great!!!!
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:48 PM
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:48 PM
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