Got my 951's Engine Knocking Diagnosed - Bad News!!

[xdshooter]

So I took my 951 to a Shop to get the Engine Knocking Diagnosed. I Figured it was a lifter problem.

Well they Diagnosed the problem and told me that a Valve was hitting a piston. They first told me it would be around $500.00 to $1,000.00 to fix the Engine.

However, they call back later with a Quote and tell me it's going to be $6,300.00 to fix the engine, get the car ready to pass inspection, and replace small items like Air Filter and Windshield Wipers.

The Shortblock and Head would have to be sent to a Machine Shop for some work.

Total Cost of Labor would come to $1,000.00....

The car needs Front Brake Repair, Rear Brake Repair, and One Tire to Pass Inspection.

The Front Brake Repair includes new Pads, Rotors, and Sensors. Cost: $500.00

Rear Brake Repair includes new Pads, Rotors, and Rear Brake Lines. Cost: $500.00

Once they told me it would cost me $6,300.00 to get the 951 in running state....I was in SHOCK!!

They said it is it worth fixing but I told them that Money is a problem right now. They of course had to say that they take VISA and MasterCard. I still told them, "yeah but you still need money to pay off the Credit Card Bill".

They did tell me that one of there Mechanics was interested in buying the 951. So I talked to him and he is going to call me on Monday.

If the Mechanic decides he doesn't want the car then I'm going to Trailer the 951 home and then I'll see what I do with it.

[white944cup]

I would get another opinion.....unless you have rotated the engine while it is out of time (like a broken timing belt) or floated the valves by overrevving, it is unlikely that a valve is hitting a piston. If it is, the valve is bent, and a simple compression test will verify the condition. The cost of fixing it should be no more than rebuilding and re-installing the head, or installing a rebuilt one. Unless there is a "hard knock" the piston should have nothing more than a little (.010-.020") indentation in it that can be cleaned up with a die grinder, so replacing the piston would not be necessary. Don't sell you car cheap to someone until you know what is really wrong with it. Good luck......

[bearone2]

Originally Posted by xdshooter

So I took my 951 to a Shop to get the Engine Knocking Diagnosed. I Figured it was a lifter problem.

Well they Diagnosed the problem and told me that a Valve was hitting a piston. They first told me it would be around $500.00 to $1,000.00 to fix the Engine.

However, they call back later with a Quote and tell me it's going to be $6,300.00 to fix the engine, get the car ready to pass inspection, and replace small items like Air Filter and Windshield Wipers.

The Shortblock and Head would have to be sent to a Machine Shop for some work.

Total Cost of Labor would come to $1,000.00....

The car needs Front Brake Repair, Rear Brake Repair, and One Tire to Pass Inspection.

The Front Brake Repair includes new Pads, Rotors, and Sensors. Cost: $500.00

Rear Brake Repair includes new Pads, Rotors, and Rear Brake Lines. Cost: $500.00

Once they told me it would cost me $6,300.00 to get the 951 in running state....I was in SHOCK!!

They said it is it worth fixing but I told them that Money is a problem right now. They of course had to say that they take VISA and MasterCard. I still told them, "yeah but you still need money to pay off the Credit Card Bill".

They did tell me that one of there Mechanics was interested in buying the 951. So I talked to him and he is going to call me on Monday.

If the Mechanic decides he doesn't want the car then I'm going to Trailer the 951 home and then I'll see what I do with it.

they're hosing you. it puts $6300 in shop owners pocket or someone wants to buy it real cheap.

is this a porsche shop, foreign shop or someone's backyard.

find a decent shop in your area for that 2nd opinion.

good luck

[carlege]

That alot of ****ing money! sounds like some one wants to buy the car for cheap and do it out from under you. Can you replace the head yourself? and do all the other work? if its not a DD i would do that...

Plenty of writeups on all these sites Pelican, Rennlist, 944online.... use it to your advantage

[bearone2]

there might even be folks in your area from pelican that may be able to help.

[Briana]

I can sell you a perfectly good head that came from my Turbo S (with 80k miles) for $450. You and some friends can replace the old one for a six pack or two. $6,300....they're on friggin drugs.

[xdshooter]

Originally Posted by bearone2

they're hosing you. it puts $6300 in shop owners pocket or someone wants to buy it real cheap.

is this a porsche shop, foreign shop or someone's backyard.

find a decent shop in your area for that 2nd opinion.

good luck

Actually this is the same shop I've been going to for awhile. I know the owner.

I most likely will take it to a different shop for a second opinion. There is a guy that I've been talking to, who owns a shop. He mostly works on BMW's now but he has worked on other European Cars such as Porsches. He was also trained as a Porsche Mechanic.

I'll try him and see what he says the problem is.

[kdjones2000]

If your valves were hitting the pistons the car would not run at all. Contact would mean that things are way out of time between the cam and crank.

Maybe he is looking down the bores and seeing some areas that were hit previously (Like when a timing belt in the past broke or something like that), and thinks that is the problem here.

Even if you had contact, you should not have to do anything with the bottom end other than clean things up on the piston tops. That is what is making people here think that your shop doesn't know much about these cars.

Get a second opinion, and if they know 944s it should not be nearly as much.

Good luck, Keith

[PAUERMAN]

Sounds like you're getting set up for a rip off, especially if he's dropped the line that one of his techs is interested in buying the car.

Like Keith said, if the valves were contacting the pistons, the car would run like **** if it ran at all. At $6500, you should be able to have a complete longblock rebuilt with 104mm MID sleeves, custom pistons and modded head.

I'd seriously look into getting another opinion. Actually, buy yourself a compression tester and take readings from all cylinders. The more information you go in with, the less chance you have of being taken advantage of.

[mikepellegrini]

+26 You're being robbed.

[nize]

i'll have to agree here, it sounds like you are getting set up to be ripped off.

front brake repair requires pads, rotors, and sensors? did they actually measure the rotors? the brake sensors aren't really required (i've disconnected all of mine). and the pads can be had from porterfield for $89.95 for the complete front set (both sides) if your car is a non-s. part number AP345;
http://porterfield-brakes.com/

for $6k you can get a complete custom built 2.7 motor with the works;


and still have money left over for a custom head;


if you're planning on keeping the car for a while, you might want to consider learning how to work on the car yourself.

[xdshooter]

I decided that I am going to pick the 951 up this week from the Shop and Trailer it home. I will then Trailer it to a different shop. The owner/mechanic of this next shop I go to, has worked on Porsche's before and has had Porsche Training.

I also forgot to mention this part: They (Rip off shop) called back one day and told me they could try to find lesser expensive brake parts. I asked what the cost would be with lesser expensive brake parts and they said $5,700.00 (Repair Engine and get the 951 ready to pass inspection).

And oh, the car does start up and does drive...it just makes a "Tapping" or "Knocking" noise.

Hopefully, all will work out!!

[bearone2]

10% reduction, big whup. tell the guy to take a hike and turn him in to the better business bureau.

[mikepellegrini]

If it runs and drives, then it's not the piston hitting a valve. Absolutely. When a valve hits a piston, it's catastropic and the engine will quit running almost instantly.

If the shop tolld you the knock was a valve hitting a piston, then they're either a) idiots or b) rip-offs. Those are the only choices. The fact that they said one of the mechanics wanted to buy it strongly suggests option b).

Try to isolate the area the knock is coming from - top of the engine, bottom? Does it vary intensity with engine speed?

If it's from the top end, it might be a stuck lifter (potentially curable with a can of Seafoam). If it's from the bottom end, it might be a rod.

The way they were trying to rob you on the "Valve hitting piston" repairs, I'd really wonder if the other repairs they listed were even necessary.

When you take the car to the second place DO NOT TELL THEM ABOUT THE FIRST PLACE. Shops don't like to second guess one another. Plus, these new people might know the first people (or worse yet, even be buddies) and might not wanna make the first place look bad by trashing their diagnosis.

Just describe the knocking problems and let them make an independant diagnosis. Don't even mention the brakes or the other stuff the first place found and see if this place picks it up on their own.

If the second garage's diagnosis confirms the repairs the first shop wanted are bogus, I'd make a complaint to your state's Consumer Protection Office (often part of the state Attorney General's Office) and also to whatever state agency licenses auto repair shops - and also I would file a complaint to the local Better Business Bureau.

I'd also consider making a criminal complaint with the local police.

If they'd do this to you, it's probably not the first time - nor will it be the last unless something is done. Places like that give the auto repair industry a bad name. When found, they should be stomped on as harshly as possible and put out of business immediately.

[nize]

if it runs and drives, why not just drive it home and forget about the trailer?

[fastfredracing]

I was under the impression, that 951's were not interference motors, because of the dish in the piston

[cvriv.charles]

Screw that dude. Thats way to much to pay. Do it yourself and you'll save so much. It doesnt matter that you know the owner of this place. People will do anything to get ahead/ get a deal. You cant trust anyone.

[tjbreen]

XD:

I had a soft lifter in my car and it did not sound like the video you posted. It could be the sound quality but it was much more of a clatter than a banging and it was not as loud.

Not sure I understand the valve issue either as that usually results in something catastrophic with a valve being mangled. If you are holding oil pressure of 5 bar on startup and 3 bar cold, It would be hard to believe a rod bearing given the location of the noise. What does it sound like underneath the car? Where are you located in NH?

I would be tempted to pop the head off and take a look. Briana has a good head from an engine that really did blow the #2 and is in motor heaven now.

T. Breen

[Grandad#3]

Before you can turn someone in for froud you should have a Written Estament listing the repairs needed and cost broken down. Otherwise it is your word against theirs. Hard to prove on heresay. You always get a written estament of the work to be performed by any repair shop.

Cheers,
Larry

[xdshooter]

Originally Posted by tjbreen

XD:

I had a soft lifter in my car and it did not sound like the video you posted. It could be the sound quality but it was much more of a clatter than a banging and it was not as loud.

Not sure I understand the valve issue either as that usually results in something catastrophic with a valve being mangled. If you are holding oil pressure of 5 bar on startup and 3 bar cold, It would be hard to believe a rod bearing given the location of the noise. What does it sound like underneath the car? Where are you located in NH?

I would be tempted to pop the head off and take a look. Briana has a good head from an engine that really did blow the #2 and is in motor heaven now.

T. Breen

Yeah the Sound Quality on my Video Camera isn't that great.

I'm not sure what the "Tapping" noise sounds like from underneath the car. I never thought of checking the noise out from underneath the car.

Last time I drove the car, the Oil Pressure was in Normal Range at Start-Up and after the Engine Warmed Up.

I have been E-Mailing some shops in NH..Mainly European Repair Shops and asking them if they have any Experience working on 944's.

One problem about going to the shop (The Rip-Off Shop), is that most of the mechanics went to a Community College and Specialized in Vehicles such as Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, etc.

And I live in Wilmot, NH.