'86 for $3500, or.... help??

JoelChicago · 12-06-2001, 09:32 AM

Hi everyone.

I need some advice. Looks like the head gasket is going on my '86 944T. I don't want to mess with it as I don't have the time (new baby) or money (wife quit work when baby came). It has EVERYTHING done except rear brakes (warped rotors) and the head gasket. EVERY other maintenance item is done. Interior is OK (cracked dash, needs a little work, but overall clean), exterior is real good (repainted a while back). Car has 177K miles, almost exclusively highway.

I would sell tomorrow for $3500, running as is (does run well yet) - losing $$, just because I don't need the car anymore. Would be a great track car or small project. OR I need to find a way to fix this as CHEAPLY as possible, due to the current financial situation. Anyone interested in helping here in the Chicago area?? I will pay for assistance. OR do I consider parting out? I'd rather not - car still looks great and is complete, but I have to get around this somehow!

Thoughts? Opinions? ARGH. THANKS.

Joel
joel@krooswyk.com (or post reply)

JoelChicago · 12-06-2001, 10:02 AM

OR, could be something else I guess - I've got moisture under the oil filler cap each time I look under it. Could my turbo just be gone? My boost doesn't seem to be real smooth at less than WOT, plus my boost doesn't come up fully right now until 3500+ RPM. Could the turbo let the moisture into the crankcase somehow, and the head gasket is OK????

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

You can isoalte the two problems. Rough and or chopy boost in my case was a worn wastegate. Open your intercooler pipes and inatke boot and look for puddles of oil. Thats a sign that the turbo is failing at the bearing. But I would do one of two things, drain the oil, it will start to look like choclate milk when the head gasket is leaking. Or run the car, stop it and remove a spark plug, look into the chamber for coolant drips sitting there, actuall I mean to say remove the plugs and check them all. BUt usually you get white smoke out the back. But for $3500 you should get some takers, plenty of guys on this board have done that repair in the past.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Forgot to add, but I would almost rather have the head gasket out than the turbo. I found the head gasket easier to replace than the turbo.

JoelChicago · 12-06-2001, 12:48 PM

Yeah, I think the wastegate may be a little tired too, but that's another thing. The odd thing is that the plugs look OK overall, and there is no white smoke or white residue in the exhaust that I can see. I checked last night. Yet, after cleaning the underside of the oil cap, I drove 5 miles (boosting hard twice) and it was full of residue again. I did one day get a SMALL puff of white/gray smoke at startup, but that was 2 weeks ago, and I've never seen anything like it since, even at full throttle - no smoke.

The car does boost very hard once it gets going, so the turbo IS working when I need it. I'll check the intake piping.

I tried to compression test last night to check for leaks, but the gauge wouldn't hold?

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

How were you doing the compression test? I screw the tester in then have someone run the ignition three cycles to get the average reading.

JoelChicago · 12-07-2001, 08:39 AM

I screwed in the tester, then turned it over 5-10 times, but the level never held. Tested a Saturn at the same time, and that one worked. I dont believe that my car, running this fast yet, is at zero compression on all 4 cylinders! Especially since it was tested a year ago and was fine.... Is this telling me something?

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

There is something else going on here. Does your compression tester come with a varity of thread sizes? Are you using the correct thread size? Even a blown headgasket would show some level of compression. When you said "Never Held," Did you see compression then it quickly leaked out? Or nothing at all?

JoelChicago · 12-08-2001, 08:08 PM

Compression tester was bouncing. Something was weird.

NEW QUESTION THOUGH! I have the car torn down to the head and the cam cover. What do I do to remove the head? Do I remove cam cover, then head? I'm assuming there are head bolts under the cam cover?

Also, what pieces do I need to fix the hg? I noticed there is a block set and a head set for gaskets on this engine. I just want the HG, really. Which set do I buy?

THANKS!

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

You need the head gasket itself. Also there is an oil seal on the front of the cam, and the rear. If I had my head off I would go for a wide fire head gasket as a replacement. Several vendors sell them, Europorducts etc. Actually there is a pretty good procedure at this web address for doing it. I used this procedure it it worked great.

http://porsche-944-garage.tripod.com/

RobM951 · 12-09-2001, 06:00 PM

Have you thought about the oil cooler seals going bad? When they go bad you will get mixing of oil and coolant without the white smoke exhaust. As for the unsteady boost, check for leaks/cracks/loose hoses in the intake plumbing and hoses. A great way to do this is with a compressor (if you have access to one) and an old fuel filter. I can give you the details if you want to try it. If your waste gate is getting weak, you can always shim it with some washers between the diaphragm and valve body to help out for a while.

Good luck

Rob

1.2gees · 1.2gees's Garage

The 944 turbo does NOT have a water to oil intercooler, that's a 944 only item. Other possibilities are cracked head, or block (ofcourse as well as the headgasket). I think I'm going to buy this car, but am not sure of the specific problem(s) from here.
Ahmet

Mrmerlin · 12-09-2001, 07:00 PM

Hi Joel well after reading this post it sounds like you may have a few problems, or might be looking for something thats not there.
First you need to determine if you have good compression , then do a cooling system test , is the car losing coolant?, run till at oprerating temp pull theand see if any plugs look like they have a rust coating if not then spin the engine over with out the plugs in and see if you get any coolant coming out if not the headgasket is prolly OK...... There is a reason that water vapor builds up in your engine, and if it doesnt get run for a long enough time then the water vapor will show up in the oil fill cap, you may also have other vapor lines that are plugged and not allowing the blowby gases to enter the intake manifold.......... if your losing coolant then it will either be leaking on the ground or into the oil or into the combustion chamber, this is seen as white smoke.Look at the oil and see if your getting a milky mixture if so then you have a leak internal to the engine.
If you do a cooling system test and it holds pressure then the head gasket is prolly OK.
At any rate if she has good compression and shes not using coolant, the gasket is probably OK as is the head...
Now some other questions has the engine ever overheated if so has the problem been fixed.....Do you have good coolant in the system IE will it protect the engine from freezing ?\Possible the engine has been frozen and cracked the head?

The mixture should be atleast 50/50 coolant to H2O.

For the boosing problem do the easy stuff replace any vacuum lines that are suspect there is one that runs the wastegate it goes down to the wastegate and is usually ovelooked but it will get brittle from the engine heat and make the boosing system work sporadically, also replace any of the 3 way connectors, that are not flexible////////Let us know what you find........Stan

JoelChicago · 12-10-2001, 05:27 AM

Here's what I found over the weekend:

I had 2 broken hoses coming off the intercooler piping, so I was leaking boost! This explains the delay at low boost levels (just leaking out!) and the occasional uneven boost! This is an easy fix. I also noted that there is no pooled oil around the turbo and no lateral play. Turbo looks really good. I think the wastegate is OK as well.

I am not using antifreeze. If so, it's very little - the level is up. Looks like the antifreeze may have a little oil in it - it doesn't look nice and clear, but I haven't drained it yet. Car runs very cool - not hot at all (barely over 1st white bar at all times). Oil is not milky - looks great. Could my leak be that small, and just between coolant and oil passages on the head gasket (not actually getting into cylinder)? No white smoke or white residue in the exhaust. Just one small poof one time at startup. Never since!

Thanks for all the help so far!

Mrmerlin · 12-10-2001, 06:56 AM

Hi Joel sounds like you found some good news under your hood .
SO..... Change the oil and filter do a coolant flush , use the phosphate free coolant it is orange made by Havoline, also called dexcool.........and drive your car for more than 15 miles every time you start it ........ make shure you use enough coolant so you have freeze protection ........ and drive your car to get the new coolant thru the system... and the turbo water pump.........make shure all vacuum lines are tight and replace any brittle lines.....Merry Christmas......Stan

1.2gees · 1.2gees's Garage

I own it!

It's got a bunch of small problems, and potentially a couple that may turn out big, but I think I can work with it. Ofcourse will keep you guys updated.
Ahmet