951 or 951S

[gixer02]

I'm deciding if I should get an 86 951 now or wait like a year when i got enough $ get a 951S. Is the difference big enough that it would be worth waiting a year for say... an 89 turbo S? thanks alot for help.

------------------
Porsche man for life.
83' 944

[monteness]

If you plan to leave it an "S" then buy one. If you plan to upgrade,,,why take off the parts that made your investment special. With a few dollars added to an 86-88 standard turbo,,,you can easily pass the 250(flywheel) hp. 86 a great car,,87 a touch better with brakes, drive axle, and air bag if that's something you need; ABS was an option..

[adrial]

I agree with the previous poster...
Besides, do you really think you can wait a full year to upgrade to a 951? I mean c'mon..
Once you feel that turbo you're addicted!!
Btw I have an '89 951...

[This message has been edited by adrial (edited 10-28-2001).]

[Kierf - ¿§?]

I'm torn, too. I want an LSD + ABS...both which are standard on the S. ABS was an option on the '87 & '88. Was the LSD ever an option? If not, how much are they and who makes 'em? I also prefer black/black, but will take just about anything but red, there are just too damn many of 'em (and I abhor red).

-Kierf the confused.
--'79 Prelude.
--preludeparts.com

[klasic951]

I agree with all those that say it depends what you are going to use if for. If the car is going to stay stock, go with the S. If you are going to track it well there are up and down sides to the S.

Upside of the S, more hp right out of the box (a few more horses when you chip it). The brakes on the S are a real imrovement over those units in the standard turbo, the S calipers actually have the same piston size as the Big Red units. The suspension has been updated with the Sport Package (M030) which are also a marked imrpovement over the standard Turbo.

But the downsides of the S are. If you are going to track the car, odds are you are going to update the suspension anyway, so the M030 suspension becomes a moot point. You can get the cars equal in hp less than the difference in price. Also with the money you saved on the non-S you can update to Big Reds, even better than the S brakes because the larger swept area.

It all depends on what you are going to do with it, but odds are you'll have fun with either.

The LSD was an option on non the non S cars, I'm not sure how rare they are, but I know that I miss having one when I'm on the track.

[gixer02]

thanks alot guys... I was planning on upgrading and since the autothority stage2 chip alone adds 48 hp i was gonna just get an 86 or 87... you guys confirmed that... I was just making sure the S didn't have any other stiking bonuses besides the extra 30hp
besides, any 951 is better than my 83 na-hehe

------------------
Porsche man for life.
83' 944

[Sergio]

Hey Gixer, do you have a GSXR?

Sergio

<IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/SergRRt9r.jpg">

[Sergio]

<IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/SergRRt9s.jpg">

[Kierf - ¿§?]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sergio:
&lt;IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/SergRRt9s.jpg"&gt; </font>

HTML doesn't work on this board.



-Kierf.
--'79 Prelude.
--preludeparts.com

[gixer02]

no i wish i had a gsxr... i was originally deciding between the 951 and the gixer (which to get in the spring)and i drove a 951 and decided... is that you in that pic?

[Sergio]

Yeah, Turn 9 @ Roebling Rd. Raceway near Savannah GA, I crashed in that corner on Memorial Day this year... Broken collarbone, and bones in both feet... Last lap, last corner, trying to make a dumb pass for 2nd. Its about 130mph exit speed and I dumped it trying to square off the apex and get a better drive to the finish.... oh the horrors!! but the good thing is, the season starts in March! Ill be at it again... If you ever need Gixxer Parts lemme know I have garage full of spares.

Sergio

[Sergio]

Kierf, thanks!

[Kierf - ¿§?]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sergio:
Yeah, Turn 9 @ Roebling Rd. Raceway near Savannah GA, I crashed in that corner on Memorial Day this year... Broken collarbone, and bones in both feet... Last lap, last corner, trying to make a dumb pass for 2nd. Its about 130mph exit speed and I dumped it trying to square off the apex and get a better drive to the finish.... oh the horrors!! </font>

God damn!

Welcome.

-Kierf.
--'79 Prelude.
--preludeparts.com

[gixer02]

holy crap sergio that's insane... on the road i broke all three bones in my arm by landing on my elbow after losing control in a wobble... three titanium screws... hope phys. therapy goes good... that's why I'm afraid to get a gixer even though it would be so much more fun than a 951... I don't know much about bike racing... besides the leathers and the helmet do you have to mod the bike, and what types of training/licensing do you need? thanks alot

[Sergio]

The part of the country you live in, and the proximity of racetracks plays a part in where you can go to the school and were you can get licensed.. In the Southeast we are lucky to have a ton of tracks...(Daytona, Road Atlanta, Virginia Intl. Moroso, CMP in Kershaw S.C. etc...) First you need to take an accredited riders school, then you need a license from CCS (Championship Cup Series) or WERA (Western Eastern Roadracing Association)or a subsidiary (RPM) in Texas, etc... Once you are licensed you can attend open practice (friday before the race weekend) and sign up to race. If It is your first race you have the delight of wearing a bright neon Orange or Green T shirt over your leathers, this is so everyone knows that you have no idea what you are doing and to give you a lot of room when passing you. Expect to fall early and fairly often. Be prepared for the sight of your beloved bike smashed up. becuase "Thats racing" I used to love my GSX-R, now we see them as tools to get the job done. I still love them, but you can't really get attached to em anymore.. We get the Bikes from Suzuki, without having to go through the dealer so we save a few thousand $$ Then we do the following:

1. Replace stock plastic with repairable fiberglass bodywork. Remove Headlight assm. Horn, turnsignals, mirrors, taillight assm. Replace stock windscreen bracket, replace handlebars with break away clipons,

2. Change Brake lines to braided steel, change pads to EBC HH Kits. Remove the retaining clips off the calipers to allow more air past the pads. (Saftey wire the hitch pin inside the caliper!!!)

3. Bend Thermostat to facilitate water flow at all engine temps

4. replace glycol based coolant with red line watter wetter and plain water

5. Replace footpegs with CNC machined rearsets to move the pegs up and back.

6. Replace Brakefluid with Motul 600 (585 boiling point!!)

7. Install K and N or BMC air filter

8. Install Dynojet Power commander

9. Replace Exhaust system (we get racer support from D&D)

10. Get a drill a bunch of small bits, and start drilling bolts to run safety wire:

pinch bolts on front axle, caliper mounting bolts, all 8 header bolts, oil fill, oil drain, oil filter, radiator cap, exhaust hanger bolts, any plug with a copper washer behind it, rear axle nut.

10.5 Replace fork springs with Heavier ones, change valving in forks, replace rear shock with a Penske Triple clicker (WORK OF ART!!)upgrade rear spring
or send your suspension to Max McCallister at Traxxion Dynamics www.traxxion.com

11. Fill with 108 octane race gas, plug powercommder into laptop, upload fuel map to black box depending on weather and type of filter etc...

12. Mount new Tires (Dunlop 208 GP's) put on the tire warmers and wait 45 min..

13. Run 172 down the front straight, forget your braking marker cause your trying to pass your buddy on the inside going into Turn 1 and crash bike..

14. Repeat..HAHAH!! Paying special attnetion to suspension settings at each track always looking for that magic set up that will let you feel safe and solid @ 130mph with your knee and toes dragging....


Its a horrible expense to get started and if you are doing well you can about break even, a weekend with no prize money or contingency will set you back about $400.00 Tires are the biggest expense @ around 300 a set and you need a set every weekend..
We ususally race 2 times a month I was 7th in the points out of approx 82 riders before I crashed earlier this summer, Next year will probably be my last, sure.........lol


[This message has been edited by Sergio (edited 11-03-2001).]

[Sergio]

Forgot....

You need Leathers, boots, gloves, Helmet, Back protector, earplugs too. Your gear and bike will have to be inspected and pass tech.. If you try and slip by after you have been told to fix or rememdy something, you can lose your license. sometimes it rains, sometimes the track is cold and offers little grip, sometimes the guy infront of you blows his clutch up and puts a hole in the engine case and spread oil all over the place. Sometimes you lose the front and save it with your knee, sometimes you win, you always cheat death, and you always (almost) have a hell of time...

Sergio

[gixer02]

thanks so much sergio for all the info- I didn't think that there was so much involved in racing the bikes- I figured that you don't need a roll bar or anything so what else is there besides leathers helmet ect... I didn't even think of replacing the plastic with fiber glass and removing blinkers ect... I now will save up alot more $ before I try to get into it- hehe
thanks again and hope your injuries get better

Pat

[UK952]

Don't know about US but euro spec S has bigger brakes, hardened 1 and 2 gears standard LSD / ABS Transmission cooler Mo30 adjustable for height and rebound, Bigger turbo. (also easier to upgrade to big reds as standard brakes taken from 928 S4)

However a lot of 220 owners I know say theTurbo spools up faster so less lag, and easily tuned to 250 anyway, but I guess it depends how far you want to go with future tuning, stronger gearbox / bigger brakes has to be a bonus.

[rob911]

Originally posted by gixer02
thanks alot guys... I was planning on upgrading and since the autothority stage2 chip alone adds 48 hp i was gonna just get an 86 or 87... you guys confirmed that... I was just making sure the S didn't have any other stiking bonuses besides the extra 30hp
besides, any 951 is better than my 83 na-hehe

------------------
Porsche man for life.
83' 944

I am sure some people do get 48hp extra from just the chip.

Will they give you a money back guarantee?

Maybe they will be confident enough to put your car on a dyno before and after to backup their claims? If so dive in and try it out, be sure to let us all know.

Evidence right here suggests variable results with "standard chips". Some cars have more "room for improvement" than others due to different manufacturing tolerances etc. I am sure most people "feel" that their car is quicker/better after spendinf $$ on it. For real benefit Ohters recommend getting a "custom chip" burnt while the car is on the dyno. That way the performance AND economy is optimised right across the rev range.


I am still looking for my first 951. I too think I will modify it, however in my case I think the reality will be that I just maintain it.
If I see one I will get the Turbo S. just my 0.02c

Just seen Turbo S in black/black here in UK £7000/$9800, does that seem like a fair price?

[Goku]

Very good price for an S if it's clean and good. Btw..yes the chips add that much horse power. But the reason they do is they up your turbos boost! Which can result in problems and WILL make your engine last a shorter time. But if you take care of it you can do fine. Chips for turbos are great if you feel like having the power for the less engine life. I had my car chiped and shimmed. The first time I drove it going in first gear my tires (almost balled) actually got lose and laid a patch at 3400 RPMs. It was amazing actually. Now without chips I couldn't do that unless i'm in a turn or on ice/water. Which I don't do. Chips are great, but it's not because they make your fuel/air mixture that much better..they just overboost.