Go for the 951 or start with an S2???

[jhiggs]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and I could use some help.

I'm looking at getting my first Porsche. I was extremely impressed with the S2, until I felt the turbo kick of a 951. I have to choose between an '87 951 with 82K miles for $7500 and an '89 951 with 72K miles for 8500. Both cars appear to be in equally perfect condition, although I will certainly confirm this with a thorough pre-buy inspection. All major life-limited components (belts, water pumps) have been replaced recently on both cars. I'm leaning toward the 951, but am concerned about the maintenance costs. I have a little bit of experience working on basic cars (and airplanes), but think do-it-yourself maintenance is out of my league with one of these.

The main question is: if it has been (and will be) treated properly, how much more expensive is a 951 to maintain than a 944 S or S2. Also can anyone recommend a reasonably priced mechanic in the San Francisco Bay Northeast (Vallejo/Napa/Concord).

Also, I thought the '89 S2 handled better than the '87 951 (which had a little body sway in the corners). Is there some reason why the 89 would corner flatter than the 87?
Maybe the 951 just needed new shocks (they are original from '87 with 72K)? How much would shocks, etc. (parts and labor) cost from a reasonable mechanic?

Thanks so much for any help.

Jim

[Booster]

Both are nice but if you ever want more power you are limited with the S2 short of supercharging it $$$$$, with the turbo on the other hand extra HP can be had fairly cheap in comparison.

Russ
86 944T

[Blackfoot]

if that really is an '89, it's a turbo-s. if it's in decent condition or better, buy it right away. in good condition those sell for $12k+.

[Booster]

What I am reading might be a typo on the second line stating a 87 951 and 89 951, upon further reading I belive the 89 is a S2 instead of a 951.

[jhiggs]

you're right. Big typo

It's actually an '87 951 with 72000 vs an '89 S2 with 83000. I wish I the turbo was an '89, but it's not. What do you think now? (about the cars, not my typing ability)!

[Booster]

Well both have the same style but if you really liked the power of the turbo then I personally don't think you would be as happy with the S2. I think the maintenance would be a little better on the turbo also from what I have read about the 16 valve cars, most of the post on the turbos are for upgrades, look through the post on the turbo's. There are not nearly as many S2's running around as there are turbo's.

[Z-man]

Well, before I go into a long lecture of the virtues of an S2, what do you plan on doing with your car? Depending on what you're going to do with it, one of the cars (S2 vs. 951) will be better. For example:

1. Getting more power out of the stock engine: 951 wins hands down: For an S2, the only 'inexpensive' upgrade would be a chip: $300-$400 for a 10-15 hp gain. Not much power gains. Yea: you can turbo & supercharge an S2, but that's a lot of $$$. On the 951, the sky's the limit with turbo upgrades...etc.

2. Autox: The S2 is better suited for autox than a 951. Better low end grunt, better gearing, no turbo lag, and no sudden change in vehicle dynamics when a turbo kicks in. (Ever try to go through a slalom with full boost?)

3. DE/Track: I'd say it's a loss-up, with a slight edge going to the 951. It depends on the track: a tight technical course (ex: Lime Rock) would be more suited to an S2, while a track with massive-long straights (The Glen, VIR) would allow the 944Turbo to stretch it's legs.

4. 1/4 mile racing: 951: more power, better acceleration. No questions there. But bear in mind that both the S2 and 951 were NOT built as 1/4 mile cars.

5. Around town driving: I'd say the S2 wins this one: in around town, a turbo would never be used. Plus again, the S2 has better low end gearing.

6. Highway driving: I'd say it's a tie: once you get to cruising speed, both cars are the same. Maybe there's an occasional passing opportunity, and there the 951 would be more fun, but IMO, that's not an issue with the S2, either!

7. Maitenance costs: The biggest difference here is 16V head maintenance vs. turbo maintenance. While a 16v head has more components to it, the turbo's no walk in the park to work on either. IMO, it's a tie here. It depends on how either car has been maintained until now: if either car was neglected, then you will have troubles in the long run.

So, with these six criteria, the score is:
S2: 2 points
951: 2.5 points (track driving: I give a 1/2 point to the 951)
Tie: 2 (maintenance costs & highway driving)

While the power surge of a 951 is great, the S2 offers a lot of great power and fun for the price!

Hope this helps,
-Zoltan (proud S2 owner!)
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[UK952]

I don't know anyone with a Turbo who wants an S2 but I do know some S2 owners looking for a good Turbo.

I do have a Turbo though so I am biased! In the end it's down to you.

[Chouse]

I want a turboed S2, but thats just me.

[MBuck951]

Just call me lucky! FWIW - I got my turbo first, but would have gotten an S2 had the opportunity presented itself back then. Both cars are great in there respective ways.

If I had to sell one now, I'd sell the S2. Why? Do you know how fast you can make a 951 with ~$12k-14k

[Pilot_951S]

Z-Man is talking sense.

It all comes down to what you want to do with the car.

I have 2 951s right now and I really want an S2, I had one a few years ago but I turned it into aluminum foil and I couldn't find another one at the time. As a street driven car it is better than the 951 unless you are really power hungry. It gets better gas mileage, it has much better thottle response, it requires less overall maintenance because it is easier on parts. In addition because the engine bay is so much clearer other maintenance doesn't cost as much. 944 Turbo's are a pain to work on. The only part of the S2 that need sspecial attention is the cylinder head. The suynthetic foot on the chain guide needs to be replaced periodically, to do this the cams need to be removed and then retimed. It is time consuming and requires some special Porsche tools to get the timing right. IMO this is still less worry than the seemingly endless complexity of the turbo (which I am thoroughly familiar with.)

If you put a decent suspension in an S2 and it has LSD it will kick the snot out of a 944 Turbo in an autocross.

On the track its a toss up, the Turbo is faster, the S2 is a momentum car, you really have to work to drive it fast on a race track. The Turbo presents it's own challenges however due to its greater power and less accurate throttle response, not to mention it's silly tall gearing.. then again if you leave the turbo stock I could probably go faster in an S2.

Like I said its all a toss up. Either way expect to put some pretty big bucks into either car immediately after purchase. Just my experience talking. I've had an 87' 951 two 88' 952s an 88' 951 track car and a 91' S2. That's 5, trust me, they're never as perfect as you want them to be.