Could use some advice - Need to replace both control arms 89 951...
 

Short history.

Bought the car. Control arms needed to be replaced. Had them rebuilt by a reputable shop. One AutoX later (<2months), one of the balljoints slipped and became loose. Shop replaced it free of charge (though I had to pay for another alignment, this place doesn't do alignments...). Less than 4 months later, at another reputable shop (PCA recommended, pretty sure both are), they tell me both arms need to be replaced (ball joint failure, wouldn't pass inspection).

First shop has transitioned into product development, but I called the owner and he is going to call me back tomorrow with some options.

Second shop says never use rebuilt arms. First shop had the arms cleaned up/machined, and used (I believe) the rennbay rebuild kit both times, and was surprised at the first failure after the autox.

So... what are my options? New arms are about 1k through the shop (OEM Arms).

Are builds that bad, or was it just installation error?

Car is a daily driver.

Car has M030, being an 89 Turbo. Did I lose my original M030 arms when they swapped in a rebuilt set? Is there a difference in late M030 arms vs. late turbo arms?

I t had been my understanding that only the "steel" early arms were rebuildable and that the "later" aluminum arms had to be replaced. Factory or aftermarket. I *heard* later that somefolks said the later arms could be rebuilt, but it just seemed a little suspect to me about their "rebuildability".

I've heard both... rennbay sells a few different kits that people have reported success with, but I have also read about needing to replace/rebuild after a few events... =(. Thanks racer.

Get the Bronze / Track rebuild kit from Rennbay and rebuild yours, if you haven't made the holes egg-shaped by now.

I used the original spring clips to hold them together, but otherwise they have worked well in multiple track days, AX, and general driving about.

Good luck, Keith

control arms
 

I have the drivers side control arm from an '89 turbo M030 if you are interested in it. As far as I can tell the joint is good. Car had 54,000 miles.
$100 + shipping.

I had my control arms rebuilt by a reputable local Porsche shop using a Rennbay or Eagle Day kit. Not sure which but they were basically the same. Anywho... Both control arms came apart within a few months. Both exploded while on track at Sebring. Could have killed me. Not a fan.

As I did not have $1200 for a set of Charlie arms at the time. I went with Vertex's rebuilt arms. They come with a 2 year warrantee and net cost is under $200. Porsche's $600 new control arms come with a 1 year warrantee, so I felt they were comfortable with the quality of their rebuild. Well, 2 years and over 15 Sebring DE days later, Vertex's arms are still holding up fine. I still want the Charlie Arms, but can't say anything bad about Vertex.

Oh, Phoenix, to answer your other question, yes, there is a difference between later M030 control arms and regular late model arms, but it is minor. The 968 and 951S arms have a small tab at the front of the arm. The tab is used to bolt Porsche's 2 piece brake cooling ducts to the control arm. Here's a pic of them:

https://www.dassport.com/store/products.php?product=Brake-Cooling-Duct-Set-951%2C-968

The top scoop piece replaces that tin rectangular plate bolted to your shock (useless, BTW) and adds a lower piece, which bolts to the control arm. It's plastic and looks like a joke, but it does work well and Porsche has a very similar system for GT3's.

Otherwise, same exact control arm.

GF, a big thanks. I am glad yours have held up, and I may give these a final try before giving up on rebuilds permanently....!

If I do not hear from the first place today, I will order these.

Net cost is a bit more than 'under $200' now though. $730 shipped for 2x, -$300 for core (+shipping). So net cost is still less than one arm. But if I have to get another alignment if these fail quickly, blah... But I think I am going to do this. I am also pursuing some OEM arms with four thousand miles on them for the same net cost... not sure which is smarter.

If you are going to track the car at all I would stay away from any rebuilt arm of any type. I am using Fab car control arms, while the initial cost is high it's only about $27 per side to replace the monoball after that. For street use I think I would pursue the 4k OEM arms

can you confirm which kit you're talking about having to replace/rebuild frequently;

1. Track/Performance Ball Joint Kit

or

2. Super Deluxe Ball Joint Kit

from; Porsche 944 Complete Ball Joint Kits - Rennbay - Porsche 944 ball joints, power steering, brakes, odometer gears & accessories

i have the track/performance kit and have never seen nor heard of any problems with them.

I will try to when I get the call back. I don't want to name drop/throw anything under the rug unnecessarily.

I will say though that they had done these before and never had a problem. Maybe the machine shop they use got a 'new guy' and he was making the pockets in the control arms too big or something when 'cleaning'... Will update.

I track my car regularly so I run blaszak control arms, they can be seen at the bottom of this page:

Control_Arms

Better safe than sorry.

my '89 turbo doesn't have the scoops, and it has original, untouched A arms. there's an oil cooler or something stuffed into the bumper of a 968 which didn't allow them to use the 951 setup.

Pettybird is correct. The control arms for the Turbo-S cars were the same as for the other late-offset cars.

The tabs and later cooling setup was for the 968 AFAIK. However, if you order new control arms you will get the 968 type, not the original ones from the 944. The big difference between the two is that the 968 ones are not rebuildable; they rolled the aluminum casting over the ball joint cap instead of using the spring clip.

One other clarification to this thread: The M030 arms have the harder durometer rubber in their bushings and caster blocks, as denoted by green paint markings on them. 25 years later I don't expect any differences between M030 and std rubber parts.

Cheers, Keith

Hmmm. Seems I got a little cavalier with the details and got schooled.

It's been over a year since I did my research, so things were a little vague. I left out a couple of details, the bushings, in particular, however this is my understanding:

The original late (1985/2) offset aluminum control arms started as model #944 341 027 (028) 02. In 1988, Porsche started making the 951 341 027 (028) 31. This was considered the M030 control arms with additional support webbing across the arm, stiffer bushings and, I believe but could be wrong, the first time they had the tabs for the cooling ducts which became standard on the 968. Porsche also made another competition upgrade to 951 341 027 (028) 32 but there are unobtainium.

I read somwhere that the ball joint of the 968 was different and unrebuildable (951 341 928 02?), like kdjones stated, but no part supplier or Porsche themselves have made issue of it and state that unless your car is doing track duty, the 944 341 028 02 is interchangeable with all late model 944's 951's and 968's. The 951... control arm is "good for moderate competition".

Here is more information for reference.

The differences between 968 and 944 control arms. The one with the tab in front is the 968 one.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1551/1002659u.jpg

Here is the other side of them. The non-rebuildable 968 arm has the Al casting rolled over the base plate of the ball joint:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6753/1002662c.jpg

The 944 control arm is PN 944.341.150.10, meaning that it has gone through 10 revisions.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9682/1002651q.jpg

The 968 control arm is PN 944.341.149.02, implying that 2 revisions have been made. The numbers that GF is quoting above are the assemblies with the bushings and ball joints in them.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4325/1002653j.jpg

And since we're on the subject of control arms and caster blocks, here is a typical failure of the original version of the caster block. These have been superseded now by the 968 blocks.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1645/1002661ge1.jpg

Cheers, Keith

Wow Keith. That should be stickied I think!

Indeed!

Wow. The Porsche engineering bastards did 10 or more revisions of the control arm but I can't find a new steering shaft to save my life.

little machining if any required to rebuild 968 ball joints
 

There is a way to rebuild these ball joints. I have done mine successfully. The non clip type of ball joint is a tricky bit of engineering from Porsche, but I have figured it out. Mine is porsche part # 944 341 149 02 and # 944 341 150 02 made in 1998 as direct oem porsche dealer installed replacements on a car with only 30,000 original miles. Do not throw these arms out, rebuild them as I did. Porsche ought to be ashamed that they do not last.SmileWavy

Wow dead thread revival. No longer with a 944 (enjoyed for years). I ended up suing the previous shop and got my money back + damages. So sad RS Barn...