I really want a 993 but......

Porscheologist · 04-13-2005, 05:09 AM

Help I need opinions here. I have been doing a lot of reading on this board and others about 95-96 993s. I sold my 83SC a year or so ago and I reallly miss these cars. The 993 has always been a favorite of mine and now I have the opportunity to go out and buy one. But is all the doom and gloom I read about these cars true? All this talk about carbon buildup due to premature valve guide wear is giving me a sinking feeling. I wrote Bruce Anderson an e-mail over at Excellence Mag. So far no response. I know there is a way to clean out the carbon over at P-car.com. But this only pospones the valve job. And yes I read that the 95 cars with OBD1 still get the buildup but no CEL so don't worry be happy. That's not very reassuring. Can it be that only those few with problems post on these forums? The thousands who don't have issues are too busy driving thier cars to post? What bothers me the most is that I have read more than a few posts (including Wayne) from shop owners who say things like "yeah we get a lot of 993 heads and the all need valve work'"!!! So if you own a 993 and have an opinion I would like to hear it before I go drop 35k on a Lemon.....

kang · 04-13-2005, 11:44 AM

Get one. What other advice did you expect?

The carbon problem can be remedied with the clean-out you mention. A number of shops removed the heads before this clean-out procedure was developed, and some still remove the heads. They notice valve guide wear at that time. However, the heads were off due to the carbon build-up and not due to valve guide wear. I think the number of 993’s that have needed valve work just because of valve guide wear is pretty small. I think some are “out of spec” so the shops replace them when the heads are off for the carbon problem, but I don’t think they were “out of spec” enough to cause a problem themselves. Since you don’t need to remove the heads to address the carbon problem, don’t worry about either problem. The carbon is addressed with the clean-out, and the valves don’t seem to wear enough to cause problems.

Your comment (don’t worry be happy) about the ‘95’s is correct. Put a chip in a ’95 and pretty darn close to the varioram cars.

And I think you’re right about those few with problems post on the forums. You don’t see many “my car is running fine” posts.

By the way, my car is running fine.

Do a PPI, get a compression test, etc, so that you don’t buy one of the few that does have problems.

Porscheologist · 04-13-2005, 08:26 PM

Thanks Kang. I would expect nothing less! Today I spoke with a highly regarded shop here in San Diego and they agree with your post. They do not see valve guide wear as a major issue. According to them (they have been working on Porsches since the 60s) they mainly see premature guide wear in the 993 on "garage queens" with low milage. They also seem to think that running with the lower engine cover in hot traffic may be a contributing factor. Others have mentioned this as well. His shop has done valve jobs on 993s with 25k(garage queen), 80k and even have a 120k car that looks fine. They think the 120k car could even go as far as 200k on the original guides! That would be better than my SC that had 135k on the original guides with zero issues. I have made the decision to go for it and get one. I will be looking at a 95-96 coupes. I really dont care if it has varioram or not. If I get a 95 I may chip it. Bottom line is I want a car in the right color, interior and clean PPI. The carbon issue seems managable and that will take care of the CEL in the 96 and valve guide wear seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Thanks for your input!

911 · 04-14-2005, 10:15 AM

Porscheologist -

You should visit the 993 forum on Rennlist as there is a lot of great information shared there. Regarding your concerns about the 993, they are a very reliable car. As Kang mentioned above, the actual amount of people who have had the valve issue is small. Someone did a poll on Rennlist not too long ago to find out how many owners actually had this problem. Many people participated and the number of vavle/carbon buildup related issues was relatively small. I believe this issue gets so much attention because it is an expensive repair.

I've had my 993 for two years and coudn't be happier. Prior to this car, I had an '86 Carrera. The key to buying a 993, as w/ any 911, is to get the proper PPI done as you well know.

I see that you are in San Diego. There are a lot of 993 owners down there so they could help you out w/ your questions, shops, etc. Take care & good luck.

Rich

Porscheologist · 04-14-2005, 11:32 AM

Thanks 911. I have visited Rennlist a great deal in my reasearch. I did not come across that particular pole however. Thats great news!

Glad to hear you enjoy your car. I have other tasks that prevent me from starting my actual search till next month. I'm looking forward to it! I have two shops in mind for the PPI. Rennlist has a nice list of shops that I need to check out. Thanks again!

MMBRAZIL · MMBRAZIL's Garage

Hi, I have a 95 and I am very happy with it. I installed a rennsport chip, and it realy closes the gap between the 95 and the varioram motors. Go for it and once you find your car, chip it. Best cost/bennefit in my opinion.
Next week I will install bilsteins HD and H&R´s springs. I will post my experience. One thing is true, stock shocks have very short life. Mine are getting bad fast.

911TE · 04-15-2005, 06:32 AM

The curious thing about the carbon build-up or valve guide problem on 993s is, that nobody in Europe or Germany has heard about it.
I own one of the very first 993s, made in September 1993 as a 94 model. It has more than 130k on it, needs nearly no oil and is absolutely smoothly running witout any valve job done.
As I live in Germany, it often has to run around 160miles per hour on the Autobahn and the car was never really pampered as it`s first owner was Porsche and it was the car for the first 993 press tests.
So buy a 993 with high mileage in good condition for a good price, if really new valve guides are necessary you can use the savings for that.
Sebastian

kang · 04-15-2005, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911TE
The curious thing about the carbon build-up or valve guide problem on 993s is, that nobody in Europe or Germany has heard about it.

That’s because only USA cars have the secondary air injection system. It’s for emissions only, and is required by the EPA. Since European cars don’t have the injection ports, they don’t get clogged with carbon.

As far as I know, very few 993’s have reached the point where they burn so much oil or have other problems that would require valve guide replacement.

Your story about your car being driven hard from day 1, as it was a used for press tests, is a good argument for hard break-ins!

Porscheologist · 04-15-2005, 09:31 AM

Im Jealous 911TE!!! To drive a Porsche on the Autobaun is a lifelong dream. Sighhh. Here in the States you have to go to a racetrack to do it. Maybe someday I'll make it over to Germany and drive a Carrera they way they should be driven!

Now that I have a Carbon cleanout procedure I'm not so worried about it. So 95-96 will work for me. To bad someone doesn't make the custom bent wrench called for at Pcar.com. They could sell more than a few I bet!!

MMBrazil- I'll take poor shocks over bad valve guides anyday! I plan on putting Bilstiens on the car if it doesn't alreay have them!

Thanks for all your input guys I feel much better about buying a 993. Can't wait to get started!!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Get the damn car! I just got my 993 back yesterday after 6 mos. of body repairs. I've had my '83 SC for 5 mos. and really fell in love with it. But now the 993 has restolen my heart. I have literally held almost every single piece of my SC in my hands and I firmly believe the 993 is easier to DIY. Get one!