Porsche buyer-possibly, need some owners advice... thanks!

[FinallyGotOne]

I almost bought an Audi A8 until I posted some questions first on their BB. I was surprised to find that 9 of 10 buyers of the year I liked, HATED theit maintenace schedules w/ their Audi's. Nothing but bad news, long wait times, and basically not bing able to drive their A8!

So now here I am with the porsche BB, hopefully you all have some good info for me.

Please help, I am trying to expedite my decision for a C4 or Carrerra 2, let me explain reasons for each:
I am very much wanting a C4, either an 89 or 90. (within price range) and i have also read that the 89 was a Porsche to be sold to the public to clean up the image and provide a dependable everyday sort of sports car.

I'll be selling my 96 Land Cruiser and therefore think it best to replace with an AWD 911. Here in Colorado, we get some good snows. So my questions are in this line of thinking.

If I buy a non-awd in order to have Tiptronic, then I am curious how slippery the back gets in rain and such. if at all. Will it pretty much just stay parked on snow days?

I ahve become very accustomed to not shifting cars, but if I get a C4 this will all have to change. Is it something that with the Porche clutch gets tiresome quickly, or is the shifting mechanics pretty smooth and friendly?

I believe I have done enough research to know that these are quite dependable and low on maintenance costs. Would you owners agree?

Lastly, the only reason I think I should get a C4 is because i wil have to be able to tool around a bit in the snow. If evn the C4 s not snow-worthy, than I should re-think this. It will have to have a good defroster and heater.

So please advise. thanks so much!

[Don Plumley]

Welcome.

First, a 89-94 Carrera is often called a 964. There are a few well-documented issues with that era car (specifically 89-91), but given the age and with a thorough PPI, these should have been resolved. More on that later.*

C4 is very well regarded as a snow car. C2 works reasonably good too as the weight is biased over the drive wheels (that's why they make outstanding race cars). Shifting is shifting - it's a relatively heavy hydraulically operated clutch (not like an Asian econobox) with a very good gearbox. Call it solid, positive, etc. You either like to shift or you don't, so I don't know what you call tiresome. Personally, I'm not too keen on driving one frequently in stop and go traffic.

Dependable - yes. Low on maintenance costs - that's relative to car age, your use and what you call low. Compared to a Honda, it would be outrageous in both frequency and expense. Compared to a Ferrari, it's a Honda.

To be clear, we are talking about a 17 year old car. Stuff wears out. Many will have more than 100K miles. Some examples are well-cared for with meticulous routine maintenance by the prior owners. Others from that era (in fact, many) were driven hard and put down wet. They are aging poorly.

If you choose your car poorly, you are rolling the dice on what can be one of the most expensive cars made. Choose smartly, and you'll join a group of people that have found them to be wonderful cars with great engineering, performance and heart.

You'll need to find a good independent mechanic to perform a thorough PPI. Stay away from the dealers on a car this old. Try not to buy one off eBay or a used car lot. Find one from an owner that took care of her and supplies you with the records that validates what's been done.

My $0.02...


*Issues with early 964s: Leaking cylinder head/case gasket (it was fixed, or it leaks or it doesn't by now); dual mass flywheel (commonly replaced at first clutch job); distributor belt vent (typically added).

[FinallyGotOne]

Really appreciate your input. The thing here in Colorado is that no one really wants a rear wheel drive car. It can get quite icy. But I guess than my only concern would be that if I could get to work as well in a C2 vs. a C4, and get a tiptronic transmission, I will definitely choose the C2. Having the weight on the wheels should allow it to get along as well as a front wheel drive then in your opinion? I culd always make sure and get those new Good Year tires that have Icetraction as well as water channeling built in.

A friend had a BMW 745 with traction control, but stil pretty much had to park it for the winters here. And if you know anything about Colorado, then you know that it can be 80 degrees and a beautiful day on the way to work and 6 degrees and a blizzard
on the way home ..

But the dilemma is that may be about 20 days like that every year. So the need for my gas guzzling land crusher has sharply diminished with the rise in gas prices and i'm trying to make a good decision on my next driver.

oh yeah plus i have two kiddos to occasionally tool around with-a 6 yr old, and a 3 yr old. I have heard that car seats do in fact fit just fine. Is this true?

thanks again

[Don Plumley]

A C2 should have similar traction as a FWD car. However, the FWD has the advantage of having the weight over both the drive and steering wheels. Not a monumental difference, but something to be aware of. A 745 is a pretty heavy car, hard to believe it would have traction problems especially with traction control.

Do a search on car seats - most folks seem to be able to get them in the back just fine.

[FinallyGotOne]

I am looking at an 83 Porsche Targa with the following info:

Odometer shows 51642 miles. Engine is in good shape and runs. Engine has been inspected and has the following compression numbers:

#1 152 #4 157

#2 157 #5 191

#3 183 #6 184 psi

Does this seem to be OK?

Also, they say they have a small battery drain somewhere???

The car's lighting system has some minor issues in the front. The right front, and the left and right front side marker lights, along with the turn signals are not working at the moment.

does this all sound minor? to the best of your knowledge?

[Don Plumley]

Well this is a huge shift. A targa in the winter?

a) Let's establish your budget (up front and routine).

b) Then define the purpose: Daily driver, weekend cruiser. Based on your AWD interests, I presume daily driver.

c) If you are going to ask about an 83, re-post this question on the main tech forum.

d) Compression differences are too large. What are the leakdowns?

e) Electrical issues are binary: Either simple and cheap or time consuming/frustrating/and expensive.

If you are ambivalent or undecided about which era Porsche to buy, go find a copy of Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story".

To restate: Unless you have your heart set on a particular era Porsche, set your budget then buy the newest well-cared for example you can find.

Don

[FinallyGotOne]

My budget is about $22500. If I sell the Landcruiser. Otherwise about $12,000

So needless to say that if I buy an older era i'll keep the Toyota for the harsher weather.

But really I would much rather only have 1 vehicle that s a good daily driver even if it snows. (C4 again...)

I have read two book sthus far. One is a used car buyers guide to 911's. And the other is a history of the 911.

I was looking at this beauty here at ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320025575087&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3APIC&rd=1

I really liked it. Very clean and smooth lines... it really caught my attention.

and now your going to really think I'm a nut, but I still have not driven one, so i need to work on doing that i imagine. I wonder if I go drive a C2 vs. a C4 at the dealers if there is a huge differece in them all the way they drive? or should pretty much any 911 89-91 give me a good enough idea what i'm in for?

[Don Plumley]

Yup - that's a beautiful car. It also looks like about any C2/C4 with clean paint and a clean interior. I however would not buy it from a dealer that says, "updated to R12" or "W rated tires" (without stating which model). Run away...

You probably could not tell much difference in handling between a C2 or a C4 in normal conditions. The variability in tires and shocks are probably going to be more significant between any two examples.

If $22K is the top of your budget for a 964, be cautious in your search to find one in great mechanical condition. It's much easier and cheaper to clean leather and wax paint than to replace the power steering unit.

[FinallyGotOne]

You said that if it states updated to R12 or W rated tires to stay away. What is the reason for that?

Yeah, 22K is about the top of my budget at this stage.

I would not mind having a car with afew quirks that I have to get figured out. I certainly want a strong running vehicle.

Maybe the C2 is the way to go then. The main idea is if I can get to work in the snow just fine in a C2 instead of C4 and have the luxury of non-manual, I think I would much prefer that.

I think the issue with his 745I was that it was pretty low, and had 20 inch wheels with too thin of tires. Someone once tyold me that it is all in the tires andthat most any rear wheel drive car is just as good as front if the tires are good.

I guess I have a hard time believeing that tho. I've spun my old biturbo out and actually once got stuck tryiong to drive home in the snow. I could not make it up a hill. Had to call my wife to come get me. thats frustrating.

[Don Plumley]

Originally posted by Iwantone
You said that if it states updated to R12 or W rated tires to stay away. What is the reason for that?

You update a car to R134 from R12. To talk about the speed rating of tires without saying what kind of tires they are is goofy. Yeah, I'm being overly picky but those sorts of errors and omissions set me off the wrong way to spend $20K there.

You'll certainly need snow tires in the winter, and if you have any kind of driveway issues, perhaps a C4 is a better way to go if it is going to be your only car.

[drisin80]

hi-- i have a 90 c4...live in nw pennsylvania where we have some fairly serious snow issues in the winter. personally i garage the porsche for those four months. its not so much that it would not be possible to drive in the snow, but more that it is not that practicle of a winter car given moderate to severe snowy conditions. even with snow tires a c4 will not get around like a land cruiser. there are a couple of reasons why i don't try this (other than the winter beating the car would take) one thing is the weight to tire footprint ratio. i had to move my car once under snowy conditions, and the traction was far from adequate. on an suv, the weight of the car is greater, and the tires are not as wide, giving you more bite. the second thing is the clearance. i had a vw bug as a young man, and the traction in snow was great---until you got any significant amount of snow under the car. then you had to shovel the snow out from under it until the weight of the car was back on the tires. not a lot of fun. i am sure there are people out there who strongly disagree with me: put on their snow tires and get around great in these cars, but if you have any serious weather and want to reliably get around, i believe these cars to be a poor choice. as for reliability and cost of maintainence don is right -- somewhere about in the middle between a honda and a ferrari. unless you have the ability and time to scout around for parts and diy, almost any little problem will cost $1000 on up. good luck--they are wonderful cars. will be interested to see how many people disagree with me about the winter reliability. ----tom

[FinallyGotOne]

Your car is the car that I was wanting !! But I think that with the information I have learned so far I will definitely be keeping the Land Crusher!

It is stil excellent for those cross country trips. We have driven our little family of 4 comfortably from Colordao to

San Diego
Michigan
And most recent South Dakota and Wyoming

So Now it seems that I believe the car of choice for me will be a C2, probably a 90-93 with a tiptronic transmission.

Like you I can garage it for the winter months, and pullit out after April!

With this direction known now, is there Tiptronic trannys pretty strong? It seems overall the car is quite utilitarian, and not very many gadgets or anything, so with a good engine and a good tranny, shoudl be much more reliable than my previous rides.

My previous headaches have been:

Lancia Beta and Zagato
Maserati BiTurbo
And Range Rover 4.6 HSE

The rover was my personal NIGHTMARE!!!! Costing me around $5,000 a year to maintain and repair

aftre 1 year I said forget that! and went to the Crusher. Which has cost me about $1,000 or so over the last 3.5 years.

So I just cannot see selling it. I'm sort of in love with it. And I do like to take Offroading excursions with groups on trails rated around a 5-6 and sometimes even a 7. i would say offroad the vehicle is equivalent to a mountain goat with a bum leg, As this cruiser has no lockers on it.

well thanks for the time, ad by the way, I would loveto work on the car myself if it is minor DIY's.

[drisin80]

hi again. sorry, but i dont have any experience with the tiptronic, as mine is a manual. my gut feeling is to urge you to consider the manual transmission, as in my experience, this may be the most bulletproof system on my car. as for diy repairs--very seldom do they turn out to be minor. one of the beautiful things about these cars is the amount of engineering in them. it is also the worst thing about them when something goes wrong.... it is one of the reasons that the germans lost wwII (seriously)-- although they had great weapons, they could not easily be fixed when they malfunctioned. as for the g50 gearbox-- truly a pleasure to drive. best of luck.----tom