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Hot Engine will not start

Dear Freinds

I own a street stock 92 964 Porsche and I ran it at the Lime Rock racetrack on DE day. After my 4th run I packed up my gear and found it would not start. I mean the soleniod was not even clicking. I had to wait 20 min to allow the engine to cool down and then it started. I have driven it 8 to 12 times around town and it has not happened again.

Is there a safety heat sensor that cuts out the starter circuit when the engine is over heated? Or do you think the starter was over heated and the solenoid bound up?

Has this happened to anyone else and what is the solution to prevent this from happening again.

Thanks
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Keith

92 964 Coupe
99 Volvo xc70
02 BMW 330xi
Old 05-29-2007, 02:21 AM
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Most likely your solenoid was bound up due to the heat. It is not all that uncommon - usually the symptoms are you turn the key and nothing happens, but you can still hear the fuel pump running.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:31 AM
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+1 have heard of this before from another member.
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1990 964 C4 Cabriolet (current)
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:16 AM
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Thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking the same thing and planning on replacing the starter to be on the safe side. I just was not sure if there was anything else that could interupt the starter circuit

Thanks again
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Keith

92 964 Coupe
99 Volvo xc70
02 BMW 330xi
Old 05-30-2007, 01:39 PM
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What you have here is called a "heat soak problem". Once you shut the car down and the cooling is off, the remaining heat in the engine soaks into everything including the starter, solenoid and all the wiring. As you probably know, the resistance of the involved conductors goes up with temperature. This means that now your battery has a much harder time getting things cranked over or engaged. I am writing this in a bit more detail, as a heat soak problem may not just be your solenoid. Other factors may be playing into it, like bad contacts, bad ground, weak battery, etc. I would make sure you have all the wiring and the connections and the battery ruled out before throwing out the starter.

Just my two cents,

George
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:18 PM
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pm member 'brother'..he had this happen to him a year or so ago. tell him 'bigchill' sent ya..he'll fill you in on what george just described.
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1990 964 C4 Cabriolet (current)
1974 911 2.7 Coupe w/sunroof 9114102267 (sold) 1974 914 2.0 (sold)
Old 06-04-2007, 09:21 PM
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This happened to me at a DE last weekend. Turned out the ignition wire to the solenoid was corroded. I replaced that wire and also cleaned all contact points for the ground strap. I haven't had a problem since.. fingers crossed.
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Old 06-11-2007, 06:26 PM
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OK, well that wasn't it. Must be heat soak. Whenever I drive for over an hour, it won't start again. I just hear a click at the solenoid.

Hypothesis #1 - solenoid/starter is bad
Hypothesis #2 - there is a short or grounding problem in the ignition system.

H1 - I've Jimmied another ignition wire from the solenoid that I will use manually to start the car by connecting the other end of the wire directly to the positive terminal on the battery with the key switched ON.

H2 - ??? Change starter relay ??? how does one find a short without tearing out the harness and looking?
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91 Black on Balck 964 C4 (DD)
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:56 PM
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I forgot to mention: the engine will start when hot IF solenoid is tapped with a hammer.
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James
91 Black on Balck 964 C4 (DD)
82 Metallic Red SC 3.6 Varioram (sold)
Old 06-25-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by peritus
I forgot to mention: the engine will start when hot IF solenoid is tapped with a hammer.
Time for a new starter. I recommend you go for the aftermarket light weight and high torque unit.

George
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Old 06-25-2007, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aigel
Time for a new starter. I recommend you go for the aftermarket light weight and high torque unit.

George
Hi George,

One of my few "bad" qualities (and ask my girlfriend...) is that I'm very stubborn. I recently got my starter rebuild at the local starter/alternator shop. I trust the shop only because the owner has an all-original 912 that he restored himself. He replaced the bushings, brushes, and cleaned it up. I have a 1 year guarantee.

He swears up and down that my problem is something other than the starter/solenoid. He said it wasn't that bad to begin with...

Now, it starts up every time, so I can't even test my test-wire. I just hauled a$$ all over Toronto for an hour trying to pack some heat so it would not work and I could test my rig, but the damn thing just keeps on working!!!!!!!!! BLAST!!!
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91 Black on Balck 964 C4 (DD)
82 Metallic Red SC 3.6 Varioram (sold)

Last edited by peritus; 06-25-2007 at 06:44 PM..
Old 06-25-2007, 06:28 PM
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george, is the high torque unit actually a lighter weight than oem?
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To the memory of Warren Hall (Early S Man), 1950 - 2008
www.friendsofwarren.com
1990 964 C4 Cabriolet (current)
1974 911 2.7 Coupe w/sunroof 9114102267 (sold) 1974 914 2.0 (sold)
Old 06-25-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigchillcar
george, is the high torque unit actually a lighter weight than oem?
Much so. I am sure someone weighed it, but IMHO it's at least 5 pounds if not 10. And that at the right end!

George
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:02 PM
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The aftermarket unit is 8.1 pounds, according to this thread:

I Need a Starter in a 901 Tranny to Turn a 3.2

George
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:05 PM
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wow! i'm going to be needing one some day. my starter..i guess it's the ring gear..makes a racket if i have to attempt a second or third start on a hard start morning in my 964. hoping my new cht sensor, which is supposed to correct a rich and intermittent rough running/cuting out condition will be my solution.
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To the memory of Warren Hall (Early S Man), 1950 - 2008
www.friendsofwarren.com
1990 964 C4 Cabriolet (current)
1974 911 2.7 Coupe w/sunroof 9114102267 (sold) 1974 914 2.0 (sold)
Old 06-25-2007, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by peritus
Hi George,

One of my few "bad" qualities (and ask my girlfriend...) is that I'm very stubborn. I recently got my starter rebuild at the local starter/alternator shop. I trust the shop only because the owner has an all-original 912 that he restored himself. He replaced the bushings, brushes, and cleaned it up. I have a 1 year guarantee.

He swears up and down that my problem is something other than the starter/solenoid. He said it wasn't that bad to begin with...

Now, it starts up every time, so I can't even test my test-wire. I just hauled a$$ all over Toronto for an hour trying to pack some heat so it would not work and I could test my rig, but the damn thing just keeps on working!!!!!!!!! BLAST!!!
If he did not disassemble the solenoid, cleaned and sanded the bore, and regreased the solenoid moving core, it will stick in due time. I hope he at least replaced with rebuilt or new solenoid. Good luck.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:33 AM
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I'll definitely ask. Thanks for the check-list.
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James
91 Black on Balck 964 C4 (DD)
82 Metallic Red SC 3.6 Varioram (sold)
Old 06-26-2007, 07:11 PM
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