Why are 964s so hard to sell?

[Rockafella]

I am helping my brother sell his 1990 C2 coupe. It is immaculate, with records back to day 1. Window sticker to today. All updates performed. Motor has never been apart, so it weeps but does not leak. In other words, case is stained, but nothing hits the garage floor.

These seem to attract either folks looking to steal it, first time buyers scared out of their wits, or people looking for beaters to turn to track cars.

This car is very reasonably priced at $21k. Last offer was $13k...how insulting. I told him I would give him that just for the engine and brakes .

I have sold my fair share of 911s. The 964 is proving challenging.

Any thoughts on how to calm everyone down and get to business?

[Marco8]

How many miles? 21K reasonable for low mileage, not so for high. And as you probably already know the 90 C2 was first year, and 911 people know about the issues associated with the first couple years of that model.

Good luck

[khyden]

However, I think most first model owners has sorted out the problems and repaired them. Although I think first models of 996 are harder to sell, as prices are dropping below 993 cars. I´m thinking of selling my 964 and get a 996.

Has it had the Luff Flywheel replaced? Top end rebuilt? Head gaskets installed during top end? All this needs to be documented. If it hasn't and it has over 50k on it, the new owner can be looking at about $8-9k to get the work done.

The 964 is known for flywheel, valve guide, and head leaks. Flywheel and head leaks corrected by factory by late 92, but valve guides still a problem for the complete series. My valve guides went out at 51k, $6000 for a top end. they went out fast too. That morning running great, 50 miles later, used 1 qt of oil, and heavy blue smoke at idle.

If the buyer knows this and the work hasn't been done and documented, it would only be worth $12-13 to me too, cause I'd know I'm going to have to put $8-9k into it. One other thing, the cat converter will clean a lot of oil out of the exhaust for awhile, but it ruins the cat and O2 sensor in the process, that's another $1600 for cat, $180 for O2 sensor, ask me how I know. Can't pass smog without one.

Good Luck, Don 93 RSA

Has it had the Luff Flywheel replaced? Top end rebuilt? Head gaskets installed during top end? All this needs to be documented. If it hasn't and it has over 50k on it, the new owner can be looking at about $8-9k to get the work done.

The 964 is known for flywheel, valve guide, and head leaks. Flywheel and head leaks corrected by factory by late 92, but valve guides still a problem for the complete series. My valve guides went out at 51k, $6000 for a top end. they went out fast too. That morning running great, 50 miles later, used 1 qt of oil, and heavy blue smoke at idle.

If the buyer knows this and the work hasn't been done and documented, it would only be worth $12-13 to me too, cause I'd know I'm going to have to put $8-9k into it. One other thing, the cat converter will clean a lot of oil out of the exhaust for awhile, but it ruins the cat and O2 sensor in the process, that's another $1600 for cat, $180 for O2 sensor, ask me how I know. Can't pass smog without one.

Good Luck, Don 93 RSA

[Rockafella]

It's a medium mileage car, not a miler driven every day, but not a garage queen 10k mile car either. No leaks, flywheel has been done, all updates, etc. All documented and done by the dealer.

Having said that, sale is pending. Thanks all for your input.

I just thought all the buyers were losing the perspective. 12-13k is fine for a thrasher, but clean cars cost money.

[bigchillcar]

guessing by medium-mileage, you mean between 70-100k miles? anyway, just hazarding a guess, i'd think high teens..18-20k.

[john walker's workshop]

maybe it's the fact that just about everything costs double or more than it's predecessors, so most of them come with considerable baggage that the previous owner didn't fix.

[Newsboy]

I didn't mind paying $21,500.00 for the 1990 964 C-4 Coupe that I bought recently. It had 61,000 miles, beautiful condition, new clutch 18,00 miles ago.
$17,000 engine rebuild, 5,000 miles ago, complete records back to day 1.
If the milage had been say 85,000, and no major work was ever performed,
the value to me would have been allot less.

[aigel]

The demand for these cars is relaively low. I attribute it much to their look, which is sort of stuck between the "classic" accordeon bumper cars and the completely redone 993. The body redesign on the 964 was limited up to the belt line.

The 993 has become quite a bit more affordable recently as well, if you are willing to settle for a car with some miles.

George

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by aigel

The demand for these cars is relaively low.

Actually quite the opposite. Check rennlist and you will find posts of people that can't find decent 964s.
The demand is higher than ever before because it's basically the same engine as the 993 but with the classic look, for me that is the best mix. No wonder I have one

[Jeff Mohrlock]

I recently bought a 1990 C2 Targa. One owner, 32,800 miles. PO had done nothing but drive it occcasionally. The motor is now out getting the all dreaded 964 leaks repaired, flywheel replaced,upgrade cam, fabspeed exhaust,etc. I paid 22,500 for it and will put another 15 into it before I am done. You know what? I don't care! its a beautifull car that will be better than new when all this work is compete. I bought a Porsche to have and to hold for the LONG run and do not regret it. Enjoy it!

[bigchillcar]

yep, love my '90 964 C4 cab...more engine sensors to understand for sure than in my '74..lol. i've been getting quite an education about the workings of the cht and maf (whatever measures air temp at the intake) sensors. but, yep..love my car..it's strong motor..and classic look. well said, oracle.

[ilko]

To the original poster - you're not upfront about the condition of the car and the mileage. A buyer may think you're hiding something. I'm not saying that you are, but you're beating around the bush a lot and give very little information.

List all the good and bad things about the car, its service history (this is where you elaborate), option codes, ownership, mileage etc.

Where do you have it listed for sale? Have you tried Autotrader, Craigslist, PCA's website, Panorama, Excelence, Rennlist Classifieds, the Cars For Sale forum here on Pelican? I would suggest even trying eBay. It's a great way to promote a vehicle even if you don't sell it.

Good luck!

[Davie Boy]

Originally Posted by aigel

The demand for these cars is relaively low. I attribute it much to their look, which is sort of stuck between the "classic" accordeon bumper cars and the completely redone 993. The body redesign on the 964 was limited up to the belt line. George

I agree that the look of the 964 isn't for everybody and that it can be a problem when it's time to sell. At first, it was my least favorite of all 911s. But there are a couple of simple mods for the exterior that can really help it's appeal. I'll tell ya... if you eliminate some of that space between the wheel wells and tires, the car will be transformed. The stock ride is so tall. And this mod can be as easy (and as cheap) as adjusting the existing suspension. Additionally, for just $60, you can get a set of those clear, European lenses... if you don't have them already. That's it. It will look like a different, newer car... and probably appeal to a larger crowd.

[rodtds]

As I shopped for a 911, I found that I did not like the 993's as much as the 964. It was a matter of my car being the traditional 911sc look not the advancing tech of the 993. I wanted style. I bought the '91 for the better of the years, but have a chuckle at the mileage concerns. yes, mine is a weekend car. Cars are meant to be driven. I wouldnt care if my car had 250k on it, it is a classic and a fun car to drive. WE all want our cars to be worth more and to buy them for cheap. I think the 964's will gain some popularity as guys like me look for the best engine with the 80's carrera style. top down in Norcal.

2006 M35 Daily driver
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4
Duck hunter.

[911skb]

I think the 964's are the best of both worlds; 3.6ltr and classic lines, but I'm biased!

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by 911skb

I think the 964's are the best of both worlds; 3.6ltr and classic lines, but I'm biased!

I agree 1000% BTW nice shot. What color is that? looks like it could be Midnight or Amazon but hard to tell because of the lighting.

[911skb]

Anthony,
It is Midnight Blue. It's a hard color to take a good picture of, usually shows up as black.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

FWIW: When I was looking for a 964 I looked at some REAL lemons in the 16 to 20 K range and some that left me with questions in the 20 to 24 K range. I wanted something that was worth what I was going to put into it.

If the top end had not been done on your car and I had been looking at it then I would have factored that into the price. The difference, I would have been up front with you prior to my even looking at the vehicle.

IMHO these are not collectors items, but are meant to be driven. At the price, 70 to 100K, top end done, flywheel replaced, 5K or more miles on the repairs, I would have happily looked at your car!

You are competing with cars selling for 15 to 18K with problems. It is a hard market to sell in. I wish you the best and just keep at it. 964s are GREAT cars!!! I just did not find the one I wanted at the price I wanted to pay. This might be more my fault than sellers faults.

Can't wait until the fuel injection issues on my SC are fixed! I miss that little beast...