89 porsche c4

[mark22]

I am considering purchasing a 2 owner 89 c4 from a local Porsche dealer (some service records)and am looking for some advice. The car only has 33,000 miles and seems to be in great shape. I have driven the car twice and everything seems to work perfect. The 30,000 mile service has been performed but the car has not ever had the valves worked on. I have an independent shop that will do a ppi on the car but they have told me it is typical for this year of car to have problems with the valves and if this occurs it can cost about $7,500. This would be my 1st Porsche and it would not be a daily driver. The dealer wants $24k for the car. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Chris Wiles]

I don't know about the valves, but the early 964 had head problems that could cost that much to repair. The low miles is a plus but the rest is not such a great deal.. The 89 and 90's had this issue and then as time went on the issue was fixed at the factory. There were also some problems with the dual mass flywheel that needed some attention. The 3.6 motor is a great city motor with plenty of torque and the A/C works great, just make sure you address this stuff. Good hunting.

[mark22]

Thanks for the advice. I miss spoke about the valves the mechanic who was going to do the inspection referred to the engine work as "cylinder heads being updated". Sounds like I am better off looking for a 91 c4 or newer car.

[Chris Wiles]

BTW, you can call 1-800-PORSCHE and give them the car serial number and find out what if any updates were done. This only works if the work is done at a Porsche dealer.

Christopher

[Don Plumley]

IMHO, that's pretty expensive for an 89, miles notwithstanding.

That era car had two major issues - the cylinder head leak and the DMF (dual mass flywheel). By now, they are corrected or were not a problem. Records would be helpful. I'm a bit worried about the AWD sensors and hydraulics on 20 year old car - they are spendy to fix.

I would rather have a pre-91 with better records and condition than a 91+ just because of the cylinder head issue. With so few miles, it's possible it is on its first clutch, which means the DMF was potentially not replaced.

Lots of cars out there, market is soft, take your time and find a great one.

Where are you located?

[mark22]

Thanks,
I am located in nw suburbs of Chicago. I do have time to look for the right car, and I appreciate the feed back. When you mention pre 91 car what is the major reason for that? Do you have an opinion on a c2 vs c4? I will not be doing any winter driving with the car.

[dewflex]

The '89 doesn't have the dual mass, so you are safe there. Have your independent check carefully to see if it is leaking anywhere. If it's not leaking, it may never leak. I didn't know this when I bought mine, and mine is to the point where I need the top end done at 80k, original clutch and single mass, though! I would at least get the dealer to perform the valve adjustment, if you trust them.

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by mark22

Do you have an opinion on a c2 vs c4? I will not be doing any winter driving with the car.

For my money, I would not buy a C4 unless winter driving was a factor. The 964 AWD system is quite complex (in comparison to the 993 system) For example, if the longitudinal accelerometer fails, they are very expensive to replace (or get real handy and fix it yourself). They are sensitive to frequent brake fluid changes (High Pressure pump) which ideally should be done using the Bosch Hammer.

[cjoenck]

If you are in the NW Suburbs of Chicago, you should put the car in front of Sol at Perfect Power. They are fantastic over there, extremely honest and very, very good at what they do. He will tell you if the car is good or not.

http://www.perfectpowerinc.com/

1009 Commerce Ct
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089
(847) 465-8837
perfectpower@sbcglobal.net

Good luck!

[altarchsa]

I currently own my 4th 911, an 89 C4. How much time do you have?

Compared to the mid 70's era cars I previously owned, the 964 is a fantastic car and I really like the C4 qualities. Some will argue that the 964 lost some of the responsiveness of the earlier cars, that seat-of-the-pants feel, due to its weight. Well the power and torque make up for it in my opinion. It has a little more luxurious feel, rather than the pure on-the-edge feel of the earlier cars, but I like it. Also the C4 will spoil you with its grip. Unlike the 2wd cars, the wheel sensing and 4wd feature will allow you, once you get used to it, to take a curve at full speed, in the rain, without ever worrying that it's going to swap ends. Acceleration and speed differences from the C2 are negligible. There are some issues with it if you intend to race though. You can read up on how to trick the wheel sensors into letting go when you enter a corner, if you get into that. As stated before, the A/C really works too, which is nice here in TX. They're great cars! I love my C4, in spite of....

Now for the bad news.

Don't buy an 89!

Go to Pelican Parts and check the price of an 89 clutch vs other year models as an example why I say this. While a clutch for the other models can be purchased for less than $300, the 89 will run you well over $1000. The clutches are not interchangeablee, the trans was changed completely after 89. The 89 is somewhat of a "one-off" model. The clutch is just an example of some of the things that were upgraded from this half year only "test" car on later models. Gauges (O.B.C.), air bag, etc. It really wasn't ready to come out, in my opinion.

Christmas Trees! They can drive you crazy. Do a search here and on Rennlist's 964 Forum to learn what it is, if you don't know. It's all part of the "computerization" of the 911. The 89 was the first Porsche to be so electronically controlled. Lateral and longitudinal sensors, wheel speed sensors, timing, fuel mixtures, crank position sensors, ping sensors, etc., etc. There are a lot of problems that develop due to the electronic controls. While all 964's have these problems (4wd only for l. and l. sensors, wheel speed sensors), I think there were some upgrades and fixes that were done as the 964 aged.

While some 90 cars also developed the head leak problem, mine didn't and I've not had a problem with this issue, even through two rebuilds. I applied a very thin coat of grey extra high temp sealant to the surfaces on rebuild that seems to resolve the issue, although I'm sure no one would come out and recommend this. If the car has not had the head gasket update performed, the machining for adding the head gaskets is very expensive if you can't get Porsche to pick up the cost, which at this point would be impossible I'm sure. I would much rather have a 90+ car!

When I bought my 109k mi. car, an exotic car garage had impounded it becase the owner had not paid the $11,300 repair bill. Receipts showed almost everything had been done, but I didn't even make it home in the car. A loose nut on the starter fixed the problem, after the purchase of a new battery,but that was followed by a loose nut on clutch slave, broken valve, bent rod...... All these problems were related to poor workamanship (they didn't replace the valve guides), but I also had to replace steering rack, wheel bearing, belt sensor, plug wires, coils (see Christmas Tree) and so on. All this to say that you should buy the "newest car you can afford", so you're on the right track with a low mileage car. But I'd rather have a 60k mi 92 than a 15k mi 89. I can't emphasize strongly enough to read Bruce Anderson's and, especially, Adrian Streather's books before buying.

Finally, the price is way too high, even considering the mileage and condition, IMHO. The milage may even be considered a bit of a negative because it probably hasn't been through a clutch change, and may not have even had the head gasket update done. However, that's a little more subjective than my other comments.

I think you'll really, really like a C4 964, but find a 90+ car and you'll be happier. Good Luck.

[mark22]

Thanks for the advice. I passed on the local 89 c4 and I am going to keep searching for the right 964. I will check out the books recommended.