1997 C2S Purchase Question and Value
 

Hello,

I been lurking on this board for awhile now and I just came across a 97 C2S with higher miles (144k). I was wondering what is the fair price to pay for one with those miles and if a first time 911 buyer should even get into something like that.

A little background of myself, I currently have a BMW 535i and was proud owner of a 2003 E39 BMW M5 and also a 2005 BMW M3, so I am not a first time sportscar buyer but actually a HP freak who wants to eventually move into a 911 turbo but feel the need to get into a regular 911 first before I take that plunge.

This particular 993 is a 2 owner all cali car, current owner owned it since 2002 and bought it at 50k miles, so he put on 90k miles mostly freeway to and from work. He said clutch was replaced 1 year ago, SAI was addressed, and no major oil consumption (2 quarts for every quarter)... and besides that the car runs like a champ and the paint is factory with the exception of the Front Bumper which he swapped out for the S bumper.

Please give me an idea of what to look for besides a PPI as that will be done if I decides to go for it. Wanted to know what people would think is fair market value for it and if it is someone a first timer should buy.

Cheers

John

John:

Please add your location to your profile. That way we can help you better. It is difficult to put a value on the car due to the current economy and not enough information. That said, I am going to venture mid to high $20's. Can you post pictures of the car? Does it have many modifications? Full service history? Make sure you get a PPI from an independent mechanic with no prior knowledge of the car. That'll be your best bet.

Have you driven may Porsches? They are a different beast- but also amazingly rewarding. Keep us updated!

Cheers,

Paul.

C2S carries a stiff premium over a regular C2. I have seen them recently from $40-60k.

Has the suspension been updated? the original 993 shocks were crap and are usually gone well before 100k...so if it has not had a Bilstein and new springs update, you will need to get that which will be obvious when you drive it...cost you between 2 and 3K.

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for the reply so far. Well I am in Los Angeles Cali, and yes I do know a friend whos neighbor is a Mechanic at a Porshce Dealership who can do a PPI for me if I decides to go for it. Also yes, the owner told me he has updated the shocks to Blisteins which lowers it for 5mm and besides the front Turbo S bumper, the rest of the car is stock. And yes he told me he has records for maintainence. Oh he also recently replaced the windshield due to a rock chip on it.

Thanks for the replies so far!!

Cheers

John

I am assuming he meant 2 quarts every 3 months of driving. What is normal btw for a 97?

Porsche factory manual spec says as low as 600 miles per quart is ok....these cars do burn oil and there is no need to jump on a top end rebuild unless you absolutely need it (puffs of smoke when accellerating etc.)....

+993 on the M64 oil consumption. It is a dry sump people!

1 quart every 600 is exactly what Porsche states as acceptable, and this applies to all M64 based engines.

SAI problems only happen to people who can't drive with the pedal to the floor and the needle approaching the red.

This one?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=263904746&dealer_id=64271337&c ar_year=1997&rdm=1245552784820

Failed emissions last year...

Hey Noah, I have had 5 of the M64 engines apart and while I agree the ones that consume more than a quart every 600 miles have valve guide wear that is out of spec I would like to point out the spec from Porsche existed well before the 993 engine.

No need to be disrepectful, I worked at a socal machine shop for years and my observations as stated regarding the M64 engines have validity.

And Noah, you need to educate yourself on the difference between R&D, QA and QC regarding automobile manufacturing.

QC has nothing to do with the valve guide wear, that would be between QA and the R&D departments.

I will not argue with you here, I am done with this thread.

Your reputation as a biased, argumentative person detracting from the value of pelican parts has proven true.

Yes, that is the one... so does that mean its a no no?? because it might require a smog every year now since it failed??

I am sorry this thread has turned into a bit of a mess.. my main goal is to try to get a straight answer if a first timer should get into a 993 with higher miles mainly. I am thankful for all the response so far, but I still havent really found my answer, I guess only way is to go and see the car and then go from there??

Also I guess I need to put down, I am not really looking for a garage queen as I like to drive the cars I owned... I start selling them once I get bored of them which was the case with the M5 and the M3 both great cars.. I do drive daily like 25 miles both ways.. so I would put about 8-10k miles per year on it.. this vehicle would also be a stepping stone to the next 911 or 911 Turbo which is what I want ultimately really. Hence my opinion was 25k would be a great price to get in a 993 daily as long as I dont have to spend 15k-20k down the road in a yr.. because if thats the case, then I would just wait it out for a right Turbo instead.

Cheers

John

Hi John,
I'm not really qualified to advise you on the 993 line and whether failures in emission are cause for worry or not, and I am definitely not able to advise on CA smog rules. I'm a long time Porsche guy, but not super familiar with this line beyond research here on Pelican. The reason I knew about this car is that I'm on the hunt for a 993 myself and had considered this one. I contacted the owner, who confirmed that the car has never had a top end, and gave me the same answer on oil consumption (based on time rather than mileage) which seemed dodgy IMHO. My understanding is that a 993 with this kind of mileage which has never had a top end will potentially need one sooner rather than later, and depending on oil consumption might need one right away. It is a rarer model than the normal 993, so as long as you've factored that into the price you offer you could do very well... there is certainly a school of thought that says it is good to buy a car like this one on the cheap as long as you have the cash set aside for a rebuild, since that way you'll know that the rebuild was "done right." I'm looking for a DD, so that situation (particularly the down time during the rebuild) is probably not the best one for me.

Here's the pertinent emission info:
04/10/2004 CA
81,638
State Agency FAILED EMISSION INSPECTION
07/15/2004 CA
84,561
State Agency PASSED EMISSION INSPECTION
01/31/2006 CA
98,978
State Agency PASSED EMISSION INSPECTION
06/24/2008 CA
137,499
State Agency FAILED EMISSION INSPECTION
07/31/2008 CA
138,837
State Agency PASSED EMISSION INSPECTION

Offer him $20 or 21 tops and bring the car fax and the above emmissions report to him. Factor in 8-10K for a top end rebuild (which is eventual but not necessarily due today)... also get an inspection on the front end to see if there has any underside damage which warranted the new valance. Probably not, but just in case someone needs to get under there and inspect it.

As Noah wrote - you can't determine what the car may be worth until the PPI results are in your hand. With 144k on the clock, the car should have life left, but you need to determine why it failed emissions. Was this in a state that plugs into the car or a visual inspection state or a sniffer up the tailpipe state? I've popped for several PPI's on cars out of state before buying one. Just a part of the purchase process.

The owner will get a copy of the emissions test. This will show why it failed. If he has this sheet, you can rule out the dreaded CEL due to the SAI system failing. The problem obviously was corrected, otherwise the car would not pass smog the second time. There are a lot of benign reasons you can fail smog. Readiness codes not set are common on the 993 even longer times after battery changes / CEL resets, O2 sensors, gas caps not sealing, you name it.

Guy drove 40k miles in 2 years. That's 5k / quarter = 2 quarts. One quart of oil per 2500 miles certainly isn't a huge concern, if it is a true number. That said, I have mentioned this in other threads. Asking the seller about oil consumption is like asking the patient about alcohol consumption. The patient will always admit only 50% of what he drinks ... ;)

The easy way to do your math here is: purchase price + cost of top end rebuid < price of 993 S with rebuilt engine and similar miles.

Most S cars still fetch north of 40k. This could be a really good deal. Even better deal if you could DIY the top end. The machine work, parts and labor are probably under $3.5k, if you stay away from pistons and cylinders.

George

One more comment about smog:

Failing smog once does not put you on a yearly test schedule or anything of that sort.

George

Thanks for the inputs, I am leaning towards this car now a 96 Turbo ...

http://www.californiacars.com/cardb/details.php?id=381

Anyone knows this car or recognize it??

Thanks,

John

That is a big variation in car and price. The 993 Turbo is an awesome car that will throw your head back with its accelleration....but that said they are a breed of their own and need to be checked out thoroughly.

Do some reseach on the seller of that Turbo both here and on the web... you may turn up a few nuggets of pertinant and useful info ;)


For that difference in price, personally Id go with the S in the low 20s and still have plenty to do a rebuild on the engine to my satisfaction. Just my 2 cents. :)