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-   -   I don't have a Hammer and trying to diagnose.... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-964-993-technical-forum/570260-i-dont-have-hammer-trying-diagnose.html)

Joe Bob 10-17-2010 12:23 PM

I don't have a Hammer and trying to diagnose....
 
All of a sudden my 93, 3.6 won't start....I'm thinking it might be the crank position sensor. I don't want to buy a part I don't need.

The engine cranks, does a bit of a stutter when quick start is shot into the intake, I was cleaning the valve covers of seeping oil with spray solvent....might have hit the sensor....otherwise the engine just spins without starting.

c2kid 10-17-2010 01:53 PM

usual suspects
 
if it runs or kicks with ether spray you've got spark. i doubt the solvent damaged the ps as it's a sealed magnetic device. i still would suspect it though. does the fuel pump run? correct pressure at port on left fuel rail? ie dme relay or fuel pump. try jumping the dme relay power to the fuel pump on the relay board in the left rear of the luggage compartment, you'll hear it run if it's ok. if it won't work with the key on with a known good relay, then probably ecu issue. the ecu is supposed to send voltage to trigger the relay to energize the fuel pump. inspect for corrosion. all grounds as well. if so specialized ecu repair gets my vote (around $300) there are primitive tests for position sensor(voltmeter or 3 volt noid light, but a oscilloscope will show you the pulses accurately. i've heard of 964 dme's going out of time (sequential vrs batch injection) from a bad position sensor as well. cheers and good luck, geoff

Joe Bob 10-17-2010 02:03 PM

Fuel pump is running....the sensor has a funky connection in the engine bay and a zip tie holding it tight. Probably a good idea to replace it anyways due to the bad connection.

Joe Bob 10-17-2010 07:54 PM

Just disconnected one dizzy in case the belt was broken....no joy.

Joe Bob 10-18-2010 12:40 PM

A DME relay is $23 for the 3.2 style that I have in my Timmins conversion. I just ordered two from our host.

BTW, anyway to test the one I have? It's the POS Hungarian one with the old style round pins.

Joe Bob 10-18-2010 12:46 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1287434740.jpg

Kroggers 10-19-2010 10:05 PM

Would this help you maybe - Porsche OBD1 Interface -

Joe Bob 10-20-2010 10:33 AM

Crap....not a relay problem...

Joe Bob 11-03-2010 12:54 PM

Well....I figured it out. If anyone wants to know how....lemme know.

I learned a lot.

Kroggers 11-03-2010 09:47 PM

I have been following your short thread. My 3.6 just went in and I do not have the Hammer, so would be nice to know what you did for future diagnoses - please do share...

Joe Bob 11-03-2010 10:13 PM

I was having issues with intermittent switched power. But I first had to diagnose AND figure out the wierd stuff that was done to the electrical on the install. I did the engine and tranny work but had a friend do the wiring harness install.

I had to find out what wasn't working....I had gas and air but no spark.

Speculation was the DME was fried, the crank sensor was bad, the DME relay was bad, coil went, the belt for the second dizzy broke, battery to low, the harness was grounding to the body somewhere, ghosts, etc....

I traced back to where I HAD power and worked to the back. Started under the front driver's seat. I actually took the seat out and all the carpet on that side. Did a good clean up of dirt and crud. Found a few pinched wires under the roll bar and floor. Pulled the DME and started there.

I found 12v at the DME wiring harness with the ignition off (pin 18). Then I found power on pin 37 with the ignition on. Then checked pin 3 in the 6 pin connector next to the DME. Again with the ignition on.

Now, the week before I didn't have power there. So I ordered two DME relays from Pelican....they were cheap. Plugged them in...no diff. Sometimes I had power and sometimes not. This was not right and not what I found last week.

I hooked everything up and turned the key and felt/heard the relay click on/off..... I had power to the injectors, the coils, the crank sensor tested fine...just cranking I lost power. And it came back when it felt like it. The actuator flap at the intake was also clicking. Ing had an issue on his once.....required a DME internal repair.

Drove me nuts looking for the short. It HAD to be a short someplace. The one place that was inconsistent was the flickering on/off power in pin 3.

I hooked a alligator clip onto that nasty pin# 3, clipped it to the test light probe and grounded it. Making sure the light was hanging high enough up so I could see it while under the hood. The light was on, cranked the engine it went out.....Started wiggling wires on the fuse block with the ignition on.

I mean it HAD to be there as it was SWITCHED power that was fading in and out. When I futzed with a turn signal fused wire the test light suddenly went on.....voila!

The switched power was hooked to turnsignal fuses and had a jumper to an unused fuse.....weird. Anyways the wire was corroded and needed a new contact end be able to have full contact on the screw down.

HAD NOTHING to do with my headlight/Cibie relay wiring job prior to the no start or the cleaning of the engine oil off the valve covers which I thought screwed up the crank sensor......lucky it quit in the garage and not on the road. Last year I did a trip form So CAl to Oregon, back and then to Reno Lake Tahoe....would been a beyotch if it quit then.

I feel reaaalllly stoopid but glad I was able to fix it. Of course I had help which I needed to diagnose WTF was wrong.

Thanks to Ingo and others......

To close, I had to pull the DME and sent it to a friend to test in his ride. $20 in shipping.
I bought new DME relays, un-needed but the old one was an off brand and now I have a spare. $50 in parts and shipping.

The good part is, it will probably be an issue again in the future and I now know what to look for.

Better than $110 an hour with someone who has no clue as what was done. Conversions aren't easy when they don't work. Probably would have cost me 3-400 in labor plus the tow.....

Kroggers 11-04-2010 01:18 AM

Nice find, and the Hammer would not have helped you with this one either...

Joe Bob 11-04-2010 07:00 AM

Nope, it wouldn't have....


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