Please interpret this '92 Turbo 964 PPI

[cash1220]

[picture removed]
any comments would be appreciated

[Arrowhead]

Before any of us get started, was the PPI done for you or the owner and If done for you did you pay for it. Is this a Porsche shop? There is alot time involved in doing a compression/leakdown test and they should give you all the numbers for each cylinder. It needs tires and brakes. Oil leak needs to be evaluated as to cost of repair prior to buying. "Shifts OK" Ok to me means there is an underlying problem that needs to be explained. If the shocks leak oil they will need to be replaced and usually all four the same unless you go oem. The intermediate shaft seal leaks and needs to be replaced. I know its hard to see up there in that area and some times that leak is mistaken and the leak ends up being the crank seal or nose bearing seal. You dont want it to be the nose bearing seal. I know, I went through this. How bad is the rock chip, does the windshield need replacement? I dont mean to scare you, as I am just throughing things out there for thought.

[Lil bastard]

First, you have to understand that it's a used car. A used car, ANY used car is a bunch of assumptions and a bunch of unknowns. There is NEVER any guarantee, it is always a crapshoot to one degree or another. Thorough knowledge of the model you're considering and a PPI slightly tilts the odds in your favor, nothing more.

A PPI isn't a standard thing, different people perform different tests, and different tests differently. It's always a 'What's wrong with this car' inspection and the mechanic generally approaches it from this viewpoint.

As mentioned, a compression and leakdown test is good to have, if nothing else, it's a baseline from which to draw other conclusions. Is it absolutely necessary? Some say yes, others no, especially if the car drives well.

It leaks oil - they all do, some leaks are better (read cheaper to correct) than others.

Shifts OK - OK means OK, it doesn't mean perfect, but it is also somewhat subjective. How did the shifting feel to you? Eventually, as in all cars, it will need attention if you keep the car long enough.

It needs tires - consumables.

It needs shocks - consumables.

It will need brakes - consumables.

The summary says the car is very clean and drives well. There is nothing much out of the ordinary given the mileage and age.

But there another component too. Every used car is a good deal... at a certain price. This car is a fantastic deal for $1,000 and not such a great deal at $35k.

How much had you planned to spend on making the car perfect after you buy it? You always need to have a contingency fund in addition to the purchase price when buying a performance/exotic.

On the face of it, it seems like a decent car if you get it for a good price. Are you up on current prices? Where does this car fit within those prices? Is it high? If so, is it a better car than the avergae ones out there? Is it lower? Is it a lesser car than the avg. ones out there?

Do you believe the PPI was thorough? Do you like the car? Does it drive well? Is it offered at a fair price? What are your plans for the car (as you see them right now) - Longterm ownership or just 3-5 yrs.? Do you want a 'driver' or a perfect car? Is this the 1st (or only) Turbo you've looked at? You really need to look at several and not jump on the 1st one unless you're VERY experienced with this model.

In the end, it all boils down to you and your own judgement. Good Luck!

Cheers!

[cash1220]

i appreciate your responses. this ppi was done for me, the potential buyer. i am not familiar with 964's and thats why i am asking for help on these forums. i have already talked to the owner about getting a proper compression/leakdown test. my only real question, i suppose, is about the oil leaks. ive read that oil leaks are common on the 964 and just wan to know if these leaks, as described, are normal and no big deal or something that is likely to end up costing me major $$$.

here are some more pictures. some are of the oil leaks:
[pictures removed]

lastly, what do you think would be a fair price for this vehicle? i know im asking the impossible with that last question but based upon the pictures and ppi id be interested to know what you think. again, i really appreciate your responses.

[Arrowhead]

From looking at the pictures the car looks absolutely beautifull and true to the mileage. It is very clean inside and out including engine. Lil Bastard hit the nail on the head but I think it's worth more than $35k. Let me put it to you this way, I dont think he will have any problem getting that amount and probably more.

Also, Good Luck

[cash1220]

thank you for your response arrowhead

[911boost]

cash, I bought my 92 turbo 4 years ago when the economy was a bit stronger for $42K. Mine had 32K miles on it at the time, and was pretty heavily modified, which drove the price down. I also knew that I was going to have to pull the motor and fix a couple of things.

The interior of mine looks exactly like that car, and mine is in very good shape.

The engine in the 964 turbo is very similar to the early 930's, it is nothing like the engine in the normally aspiritated 964's, so don't be concerned about the typical engine issue with the 964.

The fact that it appears bone stock is going to drive the price up a bit, not as high as if it was super lower mileage. The issue with that car is that is in kind of a grey area in my opinion for the 964 turbo. It isn't super low mileage which would really drive the price up, and it isn't really high mileage which would make it lower.

I'd price that car in the low $40's, especially if it is at a dealer. Private sale maybe a little lower.

All in all, it looks very nice. How recent are the records?

Bill

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by BSiple

cash, I bought my 92 turbo 4 years ago when the economy was a bit stronger for $42K. Mine had 32K miles on it at the time, and was pretty heavily modified, which drove the price down. I also knew that I was going to have to pull the motor and fix a couple of things.

The interior of mine looks exactly like that car, and mine is in very good shape.

The engine in the 964 turbo is very similar to the early 930's, it is nothing like the engine in the normally aspiritated 964's, so don't be concerned about the typical engine issue with the 964.

The fact that it appears bone stock is going to drive the price up a bit, not as high as if it was super lower mileage. The issue with that car is that is in kind of a grey area in my opinion for the 964 turbo. It isn't super low mileage which would really drive the price up, and it isn't really high mileage which would make it lower.

I'd price that car in the low $40's, especially if it is at a dealer. Private sale maybe a little lower.

All in all, it looks very nice. How recent are the records?

Bill

I don't have a single disagreement with your post, with the possible exception of how many '92 turbos were for sale at that particular time?

Four years later, not only is the car is 4 yrs. older, but the economy is not as good, in fact, it's an Obamanation.

I suspect there are many more examples on the block today, which of course, weakens their price integrity.

Cheers!

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

I don't have a single disagreement with your post, with the possible exception of how many '92 turbos were for sale at that particular time?

Four years later, not only is the car is 4 yrs. older, but the economy is not as good, in fact, it's an Obamanation.

I suspect there are many more examples on the block today, which of course, weakens their price integrity.

Cheers!

considering only 225 1992 964 turbos were produced for the US having a number for sale at one time is usually rare. We have seen a slow rise in the 964 turbo 3.3's over the past few years. There are very few clean cars left. Mostly the 3.6Turbos were commanding a premium and the 3.3's were drivers and track cars. So when a clean 3.3 comes along grab it if it is what you want.

My comment on the PPI is it is poorly written and sloppy not telling you much info. The comment about Compression/leakdown all under 10% scares me. I don't think the mechanic doing the job is honest or knowledgeable and is just pointing out the obvious. Most qualified shops will insist on pulling the engine to do a proper leak down and compression test. If he did the test what are the actual numbers per cylinder? This is costly but worth doing. Did he check for respray or just cosmetic condition. Original paint on an original car makes a difference in price. Depending on what is actually leaking you could be looking at anywhere from $650 to $6500 or more. Shocks if original will need replacing, leaking or not.

Otherwise it looks like a nice clean example with sport seats in your basic desirable color combination. I agree $38-40k is a fair price if the car proves to be clean adjust for actual repairs and don't look back. These cars are becoming apples to oranges comparison in condition and if you pass on a nice car for a few $k than you might find you don't find another or end up spending more in repairs than you saved.

[Chakka71]

x2 on a compression/leakdown test with actual numbers. If you find cylinder consistency, then you are probably looking(based on the pic's and records) at a good car. You'll need to address the oil leakage, could be a couple grand and with a 18 years old car i'm sure other things will arise. Any car that old will have some issue's. You just want to make sure there aren't any BIG ones!

[GregB7S4]

It looks like a clean 3.3 turbo with sport seats. The PPI leaves alot to be desired IMO. As others have said the individual cylinder leakdown numbers should be reported. Are they all 2% and 1 is 9%? Just saying all under 10% is not enough info. Are there service records besides the stamps in the book? There should be evidence of major service (valve adjustment etc) every 15k miles and oil changes every 5k miles or once a year. It is due for a major service in 400 miles. Is there any evidense of accident/body work or repaint? Did you run a carfax, has it always been a California car? If it needs tires, front brakes, suspension, alignment, ps pump, major service, plug wires etc you will be over $5000 very quickly. If the leaks will bother you, you should get a quote on repairing them from a Porsche repair shop. It could get expensive. How is the clutch? Alot of unknowns here it could be worth anywhere from $35k to 45k IMO.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

... My comment on the PPI is it is poorly written and sloppy not telling you much info...

+3

If you pay for a compression and Leakdown test, you would want the exact numbers.

A compression low of 22 and a high of 24 still pass the within 10% differential range

[cash1220]

bill, by "records" i assume you mean paperwork from the cars maintenance at the dealer? the only paperwork i have seen is the bill of sale, ppi, and service stamps in the back of the manual. i feel the owner has been very forthcomming with me as far as the condition of the vehicle and i havente discovered anything on my own that wasnt previously brought to my attention. i've agreed on a price and should be gaining possession of the vehicle this weekend =) thank you all for your responses, i will share pictures in the near future. if you want to know the purchase price just send me a pm.

[Arrowhead]

Good luck with the car, it looks beautiful. Let us know how everything works.