thinking of adding a 993 to the stable......
 

Hi everyone,

Been a bit of a roller coaster with cars the past few years, but there are a couple of absolutes I have learned- one of which needs to be addressed.

I have a '76 Euro Ferrari 308GTB and it is a keeper. The engine was just rebuilt and it is just fabulous. The carbureted Italian void is filled which brings me to the other issue. My wife hates riding in it.....

I love the 993. Previously having a '86 Carrera targa I decided if I were to get into another 911 it would need to be a late 993 with good a/c and be able to double as a daily driver should I need. The Ferrari is not exactly able to do the daily driver thing while maintaining my sanity. Couple questions:

Has the Carrera valve guide issue been addressed by the time the 993 came along? I recall my targa needed the valves/guides done before 100k miles and everyone I know who wrenches on them says it's just one of those unavoidable things with Carrera's. I'm hoping the 993 does not have this issue.

993 a/c? Modern, or am I going to have to mess with it?

How's the clutch?

Any drivetrain 'watch out' factors I should look into when inspecting one of these?


thanks for your help everyone.

Best,
John

John

Do a search on the Rennlist 993 forum, there's a lot of information over there.

But to answer some of your questions

1. Yes, it is civilized enough to be a daily driver. Year round here in Chicago.
2. A/C is the best of the air cooled 911s but it's not great. Mine blows somewhat cool air. Though, I know of people in hot areas who will dedicate the time and money to get it blowing cold. 15 year old compressors and condensors wear out, etc.
3. Clutch effort is fine. They usually last anywhere from 40-100K miles. Don't know of any issues with the G50 transmissions.
4. Valve guides themselves are fine but do a search on SAI. It doesn't cause any performance issues but you could fail your emissions test. Depending where you live it might be a deal breaker.

Over it's a great car, I think of it as a more civilized version of my SC. Just remember that it's a 15 year old car and wear items, if they haven't been addressed, will be an issue. Suspension, clutch, odd electrical gremlins.

Good luck with your search.

Tony

Hello John. I just made the move from an '84 911 to a '95 993 and I couldn't be happier. I find the car much easier to live with on a day to day basis. It has a more "civilized" ride which from what I've read many purists don't care for. The HVAC is much better than on my '84. The A/C works nicely, not quite like my Honda but it gets the job done. As Tony stated above the valve guides are good but if you buy from 1996 on they are OBD 2 cars and you may have to deal with the SAI issues. Rennlist has a very active 993 forum. You can find a wealth of information over there as well. Best of luck with your search.

Chris

Also, what is the Ferrari like? I know that is a very open ended question and one that is probably very difficult to describe but I'm just curious. I know they make beautiful noise but what is the driving feel like?


Thanks,

Chris

Thanks for your help guys. Pardon me, but what's 'SAI' that has been mentioned?


A well setup carbureted Euro GTB is undoubtedly one of the most satisfying cars I have ever driven. The throttle response is very sharp, the ride is excellent, visibility is excellent, good turn in. All that being said, the Ferrari is more of an event type driver. It is definitely small and easy enough to drive daily, but I would never do that as it's just too special and I am terrified of parking it anywhere as they do attract a lot of attention from everyone, good and bad. The USA variant 308s are heavier, a tad lower on power, and not quite as satisfying to drive which I suppose is why they are so much cheaper and somewhat plentiful. You already know about the sound. Really fantastic. Attached is a clip. Euro cars are a couple hundred pounds lighter and have maybe 5-10 more real bph, but they in-turn run cooler due to their timing curve and lack of emissions equipment. Not terribly pricey to maintain. It's a Dino with all the Dino bugs worked out and the Dino/Boxer love-child styling-wise.

Fantastic car, but it needs a partner in the garage to satisfy the other itch, and I think the 993 Porsche is *it*. It seems to be the right amount of raw with the right amount of modern.

Italian raw
YouTube - Ferrari 308GTB with modified engine opening the taphttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291743939.jpg

R134 by this time I assume? Or still R12. I use Freeze12 in cars originally intended for R12 use which is fantastic stuff. This a/c thing is really a dealer-breaker if it's not adequate. I guess the best thing for me to do is drive one in hot weather and find out for sure. hmm

It will be better then the 308 in every way, but the sound of the engine. It will cost yearly about what you pay for an oil change on the 308.

AC works ok, but not up to most new cars, it has never let me down when needed, even in over 100deg temps.

Valve guides do wear, but it's anywhere from 20kmi-250kmi. It has a lot to do with maintenance (yearly oil changes) type of drives ( short trips kill it), & the temp of the area you live in, the hotter the area the more likely the valves will be worn.

Other then weak shocks, the 993's are very reliable, & work really well as a daily car. The downside is the storage space, & showing up in a 911. Most people will think it's brand new & worth over $100,000. You do get some stares & bad looks.

Try to drive a few 993's. Their feel can vary considerably depending on what, if any, suspension upgrades have done. That's usuallly the first thing people do.

I had an '87 Carrera and the AC in the 993 is much better but that's not say too much.

If you decide on a 993, try to get honest information from the owner about oil consumption. This is probably the single most important clue about the condition of the engine and how close it might be to needing some top end work. Of course an independent PPI is also suggested.

SAI = Secondary Air Injection

Here's a good link.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-964-993-technical-forum/313946-sai-cel-faq.html

If you want to try out my 993, I'm happy to swap with the Ferrari for a couple of months. :-)

John:

Pretty much everything has been covered, but I'll add that getting a car that has already had the 'usual suspects' of upgrades (new, lowered suspension, 18" wheels, steering rack replaced, plug wires, etc.) will probably save you $ in the long run over an 'original' car that doesn't have any of that stuff.

I came from an '89 targa and loved it, but the 993 is a way more user-friendly car. Wife & I can now have conversations at freeway speed- gotta love that!

Cheers,

Paul.

Great advice. Searching for an enthusiast owned car which has had all these potential issues addressed seems to be the best way to go. The Ferrari world is pretty much the same way. Now it's just finding one......

Hi John,

The A/C in my 993 is as good as the ones in the Honda CR-V and Toyota Yaris which are up to spec. In fact, many times I am freezing in my car with a fleece 200 on. Mind you, we're talking outside temperatures of 85 degrees, not nearly as hot as it gets in the deep south.

The clutch is fine on my 993. I guess the only thing might be a noisy clutch slave cylinder, which along with the clutch master cylinder, I will be replacing this winter. Both parts are about $150.

After being put into the hospital thanks to a cell phone yapping idiot, I was looking for a toy (life can be short). Here I was looking at three-dimensional art, namely Ferraris...360s, 550s, etc. Then I remembered two things: I always wanted a 911, and the comments of an Italian, who lives in Italy and one who worked in the auto industry till he retired..."Ferraris are beautiful to look at, but if you want a reliable sports car, buy a Porsche". I haven't owned mine long enough to comment and it isn't a daily driver, but many on the forums have some very serious miles on their cars.

Drive a few and see if one is right for you.

John:

+993 for the Rennlist forum. This place is great, but the RL 993 forum gets way more traffic.

Good luck, & post more pics of your Ferrari!

Cheers,

Paul.

BS on sending every basic 993 question over to Rennlist - that way we'll never have any traffic here. I haven't had a single question left unanswered on PP be it for the 993 or the SC.

I second that you need to get the suspension done in a stiffer version to really bring out the car's potential. Stock US is a bit soft and got the car the GT / soft ride rep.

With my 993 I can run the same times on the track on street tires than what I did in the SC which was stripped and prepped to a much higher degree ... then drive home with the a/c on and a nice stock stereo system entertaining me ...

George

Really good advice above. Paul, you are absolutely correct regarding the interior noise compared to a 3.2. My car still has the stock suspension set up but then again I don't have enough seat time to feel the need to mod it just yet. John, I don't know if you've considered one but I cross shopped 964's and 993's. The 964 felt more like my 3.2, it actually felt faster than the 993 if that makes any sense. But in the end it was the overall package that the 993 offers that I really wanted (not to mention the looks of the car, which are stunning in my opinion).

Chris

"Has the Carrera valve guide issue been addressed by the time the 993 came along? I recall my targa needed the valves/guides done before 100k miles and everyone I know who wrenches on them says it's just one of those unavoidable things with Carrera's. I'm hoping the 993 does not have this issue. "

Valve guide issue is still there. Seemed random on when and where it strikes. My 964 valve guide went bad at 95K. At the same mileage when I rebuilt my 993, the guides had only some wear.

"993 a/c? Modern, or am I going to have to mess with it? "

Modern-ish...but it's not going to be like a Toyota in Nevada. Below 90 degrees, it's great...but above that, no chance. I live in Texas and drive my 993 daily so I know.

"How's the clutch? "

No problem with the clutch.

"Any drivetrain 'watch out' factors I should look into when inspecting one of these? "

No, pretty much just the SAI on 96+ and valve guide issues. And you can't really check for valve guide issues.

Overall, I think the 993 is the PERFECT company for the 308 you have there. Get a C2/4s you will have the perfect body shape.

a quick read of the answers above shows good info on your questions.

valve guides are still a high-wear item on 993s

cheers

Craig

I have two 95 high mileage 993 and both motors are as strong as the day I stole them .
One has 220k km and the other has 178k km and neither has had any valve job or any engine work except regular maintenance stuff ( valve cover gasket , distributor belt ect.. )

Cheers Guy

Of course the 964 is a better Carrera....
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1291942148.jpg
But I am just a teeny bit biased.

I loved the 993 but it wasn't much of a track car in stock form, the 964 still has one foot in the early car feel so to speak and fewer "bad looks" from passers by.

Of course, the last poster is dead wrong. The 993 is the best Carrera ever built...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/DSCN0377.jpg

I am not biased at all, it is a fact that the 993 is better than the 964! SmileWavy

Cheers,

Paul.