Oil change help

[rbp]

I followed the instructions in the DIY section on the oil change. While doing the oil change I did some other work so the car sat for a few weeks while I worked on it during my spare time. After I dropped the oil from both the case and tank and changed out both filters I put everything back together with new seals and crush washers as spelled out. I then added oil to the tank fill spout and got to 8 liters as the DIY suggests.

The DIY then says to start the engine. The way I see it I have no oil in the case and therefore no oil for the oil pump to pump! I tried disconnecting the coil wires and turning the engine with the starter in hope it would move oil from the tank through the oil circulation system but it made no difference. I can see the oil at the top of the pipe where it connects to the fill spout hose. The oil level has remained there for days now.

Anyone know anything about this or have experienced a similar problem? I don't want to start the engine with no oil, can't see that being a good thing.

[964TargaC2]

Both filters?? is this a 964?

[dad911]

Originally Posted by rbp

...... I tried disconnecting the coil wires and turning the engine with the starter in hope it would move oil from the tank through the oil circulation system but it made no difference. ......

Did it build oil pressure when you did that?

[rbp]

Car is a 1996 993. Not sure if there was any oil pressure, wasn't looking at the gauge. I let the engine roll over for a good couple of minutes in hope that the oil level would go down at teh fill spout but nothing.

[Vandit]

I'm not quite seeing what is causing your freakout. All seems like SOP, but you're talking like the car is broken or you're really paranoid.

[B. Elliott]

Just start it and watch the oil pressure gauge. You should get oil pressure in under 5sec or so.

[rbp]

Likely just paranoid. Most of the other cars I have owned I would have oil in the oil pan where the pump is. With this one it seemed odd that the case is drained, the pump is in the case and the oil doesn't move from the tank to the case without the pump. I just though it better to be safe than sorry so I asked the question.

Started the car and watched the gauge. Lifters made a lot of noise, oil pressure came up within a few seconds so all turned out OK. Thanks for the feedback.

[Gunter]

rbp,

Next time try this: After the 8-9 liters of new oil are added, open the fuse/relay panel in the trunk and remove the DME relay (It's marked).
Then crank the engine until the oil pressure light in the dash goes out, about 5 seconds. Now replace the DME relay and start normally.

When changing oil or after storage, the hydraulic lifters are pretty dry and you want to build up pressure first without ignition or fuel. Removing the DME relay will accomplish that. Also, keep a spare DME relay because they can fail.

[rbp]

Thanks for the info. That is what I was looking for before starting the engine. I tried cranking it over with the coil wires pulled but that didn't help.

Now I know for next time.

[Gunter]

When just disconnecting the coil wires, fuel is still supplied washing down the inside of the P/C's when cranking; not good!

Plus possible damage to the complicated DME ignition system is possible because the Voltage is so much higher than the Kettering ignition from 40 years ago.

BTW: If your twin-distributor still has the original belt, consider installing a new one plus some cleaning and lubing. Instructions for DIY with pictures are on pcarworkshop.

[rbp]

Thanks, what is and where is pccarworkshop?

[bleachii]

I just had this same thing with my 930, RBP. My process slightly different than what Gunter suggested as I imagine its doing something similar with your 993. I was told to remove the fuel pump relays (2) and then let the car turn over for 5-10 seconds so as not to ruin the starter but allow the oil pumps to go to work. You can see the pressure build which hopefully means oil is going to the far reaches. Interesting to see how this works on a 993.

Gunter, do you know if the DME fuse is in a 964 as well? In my 930 my car had sat without oil for about 6 months and hence my concern when I went to restart it. If I was doing a quick oil change I don't think i would worry about it.

[Gunter]

993 (1994 - 1998) - pcarworkshop

For a 930, I'd remove the fuel pump relays plus disconnect the Bosch CDI module. I believe the turbo has the 8 pin module? Pull the plug off. Then crank until the light goes out, about 5-8 seconds should do it. Before reinstalling the CDI plug, put a little dielectric grease or Vaseline on the pins.

964 should have a marked DME relay in the fuse/relay panel. 964 owners chime in.

[rbp]

What is and where might I locate PCCARWORKSHOP?

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by rbp

What is and where might I locate PCCARWORKSHOP?

Link in the post before yours

[rbp]

Got it. Thanks

[Gunter]

First challenge is usually opening the Phillips screws holding the caps on. Phillips socket on a long extension works better than a screwdriver. Press down hard to crack them open.

Next challenge is to get the distributor out. Some people use a small prybar but I found it easier to rig up a strong wire around the center of the distributor, put layers of rags on the fender and use a 2x4 as lever to pull straight up on the wire.

Be sure to drill straight to get the pin out; don't let the drill wander off into the shaft material!

If you cannot find a new pin that fits, you can use the soft end of a drill bit to make a pin. Only the cutting edge is hardened, the other end is pliable. Cut it long enough so you can hammer a good mushroom on the ends.

Bearings are: 4 special sealed angular contact bearings and 1 needle bearing but are NLA.!! Check them carefully for smooth rotation of the inner race. The only bearing not sealed is the bottom needle bearing which can be lubed once the shaft is out.
If one or more are bad, you have a choice to send the distributor to a rebuilder or Bosch Germany.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Next challenge is to get the distributor out. Some people use a small prybar but I found it easier to rig up a strong wire around the center of the distributor, put layers of rags on the fender and use a 2x4 as lever to pull straight up on the wire.

I used a slide hammer and stainless steel cable to get mine out. I put a layer of vinyl hose over the cable to protect the finish of the distributor.

Originally Posted by Gunter

Be sure to drill straight to get the pin out; don't let the drill wander off into the shaft material!

Always a good idea. The pin is very soft in comparison to the adjacent material, so there is less of a worry.

Originally Posted by Gunter

If you cannot find a new pin that fits...

The pin is available from Porsche, part number 930 602 922 00.

The belt is available from the aftermarket.

Originally Posted by Gunter

Bearings are: 4 special sealed angular contact bearings and 1 needle bearing but are NLA.!! Check them carefully for smooth rotation of the inner race.

I thought there were 3 angular contact bearings; 2 in the secondary distributor and 1 in the primary distributor.

I hope to modify the available angular contact bearings this winter, time permitting to make the jig.

Originally Posted by Gunter

The only bearing not sealed is the bottom needle bearing which can be lubed once the shaft is out.

The needle bearing at the gear is most probably lubed by engine oil that works it way in as there is no seal at the bottom.

Originally Posted by Gunter

If one or more are bad, you have a choice to send the distributor to a rebuilder or Bosch Germany.

None of the distributor rebuilders replace the angular contact bearings that I know of. Your best bet is to keep an eye out on eBay for a NOS (New-Old-Stock) dual distributor. I lucked in and found one that was never used and never installed for far less than the cost of a rebuild with 3 so-called new bearings.

[Gunter]

Good stuff, Alex.

I wrote down some details and measurements here:

Porsches by Jeffs and a Steve • View topic - 993: Dual-distributor Bosch 0 237 503 004 bearing issues

I remember 4 special sealed bearings plus 1 needle bearing.

There is another angular contact bearing on top of the needle bearing on the bottom of the primary shaft.
There is a step (reduction in diameter) on the bottom of the primary shaft and the angular contact bearing is positioned against that step for axial load from the shaft and the needle bearing holds radial load for correct lash between the distributor gear and worm gear on the crankshaft.

It sucks that the bearings are NLA.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Gunter

I remember 4 special sealed bearings plus 1 needle bearing.

It sucks that the bearings are NLA.

The bearings in my dual distributor that I rebuild last winter were all good and smooth running, so I didn't need to pull it apart more than I did.

I'll have it out next winter when I install the NOS dual distributor that I bought. At that point, I'll have a closer look.

As for the bearings...I hope to make them available.