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Just for completeness sake I checked the factory specs for front track w/ the same 7ET55 & 205/50 x17 setup
964 1374mm
993 1405 mm

difference 15.5mm per side, all of which appears to be in the longitudinals

and the mounting holes are 30mm apart
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:02 AM
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Oleg Perelet
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
Just for completeness sake I checked the factory
...
difference 15.5mm per side, all of which appears to be in the longitudinals

and the mounting holes are 30mm apart
That's about what I got (counting difficulties to measure from mounting hole to center of a-arm hole) .

Also 993 rotors space wheel a bit wider. I found out that Fuchs wheels can not clear 993 caliper without rotor mounted (scared the @#$%^ out of me when I tried wheels on the bare hub before I realized

Next time I get around I'll measure outer rotor wall thickness for 993 and 964 rotors.
Oleg.
Old 01-29-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perelet View Post
T....
Also 993 rotors space wheel a bit wider. I found out that Fuchs wheels can not clear 993 caliper without rotor mounted (scared the @#$%^ out of me when I tried wheels on the bare hub before I realized

Next time I get around I'll measure outer rotor wall thickness for 993 and 964 rotors.
Oleg.
that I know if you use 964 or 928 rotors you use 964t or 964RS wheel carriers or 964 wheel carriers w/ their correct o/s build into the caliper adapters

W/ 993 rotors you use 993 wheel carriers or w/ 964 wheel carriers a caliper adapter w/ their o/s

here's the difference between a 964 322 and a 993 322
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:47 AM
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Got around to look at rotors. Wall thickness is same, 993 hat is about 10mm shorter.






So looks like longitudinals are major contributor to track change. I may measure uprights...

Also, I can not find 964 RS track width spec anywhere, Bill do you have any reference for it?

Thanks!
Oleg.
Old 02-01-2014, 09:22 PM
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That looks to ba a 964 28x298 rotor on the right, What rotor is on the left?


When comparing 964RS/t 322x32 to 993 322x32 I think that the height difference was ~5mm

964RS came w/ 7.5x17ET55 & 9x17ET55 wheels 205/50 & 255/40 tires, factory spec for track is 1379/1380mm

964 base wheels were 6ET52 & 7ET55 wheels 205/55 & 225/50 x16 tires, factory spec track is 1380/1374mm

964 option was 7ET55 & 9ET55 wheels, 205/50 & 255/40 x17 tires, factory spec track is 1374/1374mm

993 base 7ET55 & 9ET70 wheels 205/55 & 245/45 x16 tires, factory spec track is 1405/1444mm

993 option was 7ET55 & 9ET70 wheels, 205/50 & 255/40 x17 tires, factory spec track is 1405/1474mm, rear also used 9x17ET55, I believe that the 9ET70 used a spacer but I've never seen those wheels so don't know for sure the spec is for the 9ET55 wheel

993RS was 8ET52 & 10ET65 wheels 225/40 & 265/35 x18 tires, 1413/1452mm
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
That looks to ba a 964 28x298 rotor on the right, What rotor is on the left?
.....
It's 993 stock rotot, I labeled pics.

One thing that I want to understand - why factory rolled fenders on RS? It did used 964 turbo wheel carriers and unique upper strut mounts but other suspension pieces were practically 964 parts mounted in NB configuration.

Before switching to this new suspension, I had my car with stock 964 parts & 7.5et55 front wheels at much lower than RS setting and never had problems with lips ... I had bump steer and tire rubbing inner fender issues, but no lips issues.

PS. After move to CA all my books and old reference mags/docs are still boxed up..
Old 02-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perelet View Post
It's 993 stock rotot, I labeled pics.

One thing that I want to understand - why factory rolled fenders on RS? It did used 964 turbo wheel carriers and unique upper strut mounts but other suspension pieces were practically 964 parts mounted in NB configuration.

Before switching to this new suspension, I had my car with stock 964 parts & 7.5et55 front wheels at much lower than RS setting and never had problems with lips ... I had bump steer and tire rubbing inner fender issues, but no lips issues.

PS. After move to CA all my books and old reference mags/docs are still boxed up..
Ops I missed the labels

My guess is that they were prepping the cars to almost Cup specs, as they also flattened the oil line. These are both steps that allow the use of 8 & 9.5" wheels on the Cups
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:11 PM
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Great thread! Thanks for all the info.
Old 08-13-2014, 12:10 PM
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Does anyone know the difference between the regular (99334101700) wishbones and the Carrera RS wishbones(99334101780) ?
Tks P

Last edited by perrew; 06-21-2015 at 10:53 PM..
Old 06-18-2015, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
That looks to ba a 964 28x298 rotor on the right, What rotor is on the left?


When comparing 964RS/t 322x32 to 993 322x32 I think that the height difference was ~5mm

964RS came w/ 7.5x17ET55 & 9x17ET55 wheels 205/50 & 255/40 tires, factory spec for track is 1379/1380mm

964 base wheels were 6ET52 & 7ET55 wheels 205/55 & 225/50 x16 tires, factory spec track is 1380/1374mm

964 option was 7ET55 & 9ET55 wheels, 205/50 & 255/40 x17 tires, factory spec track is 1374/1374mm

993 base 7ET55 & 9ET70 wheels 205/55 & 245/45 x16 tires, factory spec track is 1405/1444mm

993 option was 7ET55 & 9ET70 wheels, 205/50 & 255/40 x17 tires, factory spec track is 1405/1474mm, rear also used 9x17ET55, I believe that the 9ET70 used a spacer but I've never seen those wheels so don't know for sure the spec is for the 9ET55 wheel

993RS was 8ET52 & 10ET65 wheels 225/40 & 265/35 x18 tires, 1413/1452mm
I just noticed Bill has the optional Cup I's for the 964 narrow body as 7 & 9's. All the info I have shows the RSA wheels as the option wheels which would be 7 ET 55 & 8's ET 52. The 7 & 9's were standard on the turbo.

If anyone has info on the track of the 3.8RS 964 I would be interested.
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Old 06-18-2015, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt View Post
I just noticed Bill has the optional Cup I's for the 964 narrow body as 7 & 9's. All the info I have shows the RSA wheels as the option wheels which would be 7 ET 55 & 8's ET 52. The 7 & 9's were standard on the turbo.

If anyone has info on the track of the 3.8RS 964 I would be interested.
You are correct the normal 964 C2 wheel was the 6ET52.3 x16 w/ 205/55 tire and 8ET52.3or ET52 w/225/50 x16 tire
option was the Cup 1 7ET55 x17 w/ 205/50 tires and 8ET52 x17 w/ 255/40 tire, this was used w/ M1(steering stop) and M2(bumper edge) mods

RSA used the same 17s as above

964 RS used 7.5ET55 w/205/55 x17 tires and 9ET55 w/255/40 x17 tires

964Cup used 8ET52 w/ 235/40 x17 tiresa and 9.5ET47 w/ 275/40 x17 tires

for '93 this was changed to 18 w/ the same ET not sure what tires

3.8RS street used 9ET48 and 11 ET5 wheels, I'd need to dig some to find the tire specs
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:29 PM
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Nice suspension setup in this thread!!!!very informative.
Old 06-19-2015, 04:53 PM
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Few updates to this thread.
Wheel studs

Here’s list of some Porsche wheel studs, diameter 14.70mm

40mm 901 341 671 01 Standard 964
45mm 904 341 671 00 Standard 994 < 94
45mm 993 331 671 01
50mm 928 341 671 01 Standard 928, Standard 993 > 94
50mm 928 341 671 02 Standard 928, Standard 964 Turbo
52mm 901 331 671 00
65mm 911 331 671 00
72mm 901 331 671 01 For S rear with 21mm spacer


Here are common Porsche wheel studs. I have (new) Fuchs wheels and use 12mm spacers at rear. Standard 964 or 993 studs have not enough thread:




I ended up ordering set of 65mm 911 331 671 00 studs that have best fit:





To remove studs, do not use hammer, press them out. To press in 65mm studs hand brakes needs to be partially disassembled:





Car with spacers (needs wash


Last edited by perelet; 06-23-2015 at 09:33 PM..
Old 06-23-2015, 08:45 PM
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Rear spring plates

My rubber rear spring booths been cracked:



They are reasonably easy to remove:













At this moment one can install Elephant racing bushings.
Old 06-23-2015, 08:57 PM
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Rear spring plates continued

I ordered 935 style plates. They look like they may provide independent toe and camber alignment (I was wrong - see later)



They also turned to be thinner than stock, so Weissach effect is probably a bit increased, but also they have welded in bolt section which should make them a bit less flexible.

I'm not sure if they decrease or increase Weissach effect (no matter what advertisements say)





Need also rubber rod ends, otherwise ball joint won't last long:


Need also rubber rod ends, otherwise ball bearing won't last long. Putting them on is ROYAL PITA , REALLY:



Now, there's widely discussed topic on what side to put slotted hole. 1st time I put it down. I had hard time getting rear toe to 0, it was always way in. After I flipped them and put slotted hole on top I was able to get toe right and had up to about 3.5 deg freedom in camber.

Note. Adjusting toe screw WILL change your camber, so alignment takes about as long as regular 964 plates.


Putting rear suspension in the car without engine is real pleasure!




Last edited by perelet; 06-23-2015 at 10:12 PM..
Old 06-23-2015, 09:30 PM
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Yes, with the slotted hole at the bottom I maxed out at -1.2 rear camber. When I put the slotted hole at the top I could get up to -3.0 rear camber. I set it at -2.0 when aligned.

Regarding Weissach effect, I believe that comes from the rubber in the OE spring plate bushing. The 935-style with the monoball and no rubber will not deflect under braking because no rubber components, so Weissach effect is eliminated.

The rear axle feels much more stable and predictable, especially when over the limit and over the limit in transitions, than with the old OE spring plates. It's a great upgrade.
Old 06-23-2015, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandit View Post
...
Regarding Weissach effect, I believe that comes from the rubber in the OE spring plate bushing. The 935-style with the monoball and no rubber will not deflect under braking because no rubber components, so Weissach effect is eliminated.
...
I think Weissach effect is combination of flexible spring plate and "sliding" bushing. Here's page from Paul Frere book



On RS they used special spring plates (somebody can measure them please?) and modified bushing, here's page from RS broshure:





Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandit View Post
...
The rear axle feels much more stable and predictable, especially when over the limit and over the limit in transitions, than with the old OE spring plates. It's a great upgrade.
I yet to sort this car out one more time
Old 06-23-2015, 10:38 PM
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Wow....! I hadn't run across this thread before, the compilation of info is amazing. Cheers
Old 06-24-2015, 06:41 AM
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Is the metal of the spring plate really designed to flex?

The Weissach-effect is suppose to add toe-in under braking.

Let's assume the spring plate member is supposed to flex. Any flexing of the metal of the spring plate wouldn't add toe-in because that member is never longer than when it is perfectly straight. And flexing would shorten the length of the member and reduce toe-in.


The RS-spec bushing is the outer bushing in the cast trailing arm. This RS arm (Porsche never sold the bushing by itself) is NLA and that's why Ninemeister worked with Powerflex to engineer their poly bushing kit for the rear trailing arm to mimic the stiffness of the RS piece.

Last edited by Vandit; 06-24-2015 at 08:37 PM..
Old 06-24-2015, 08:32 PM
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Oleg Perelet
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandit View Post
Is the metal of the spring plate really designed to flex?
Yes, they are called spring plates for reason Took me awhile to understand that until I installed rear arm and bolted spring plates very loose. You can push arm on front or side and see toe in.

Here's description from same book:



and here's enlarged piece of previous page with comments



I think as time went by that design turned to be less liked by enthusiasts. But I think 964 fans are lucky to be spared from 993 rear which has it's own problems that are not easy to deal with.

I agree, full solution will be to redo bushings, there are few models available. Well - leave me topics to cover here in this thread
Old 06-25-2015, 07:44 PM
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