I can't decide???? 964/993

[pmead]

I have narrowed it down to 2 cars.

1991 964c4 cab w/80k, total engine rebuild/clutch @ 75k, new top and motors (2009)
black/taupe int

1995 993 c2 cab w/109K no engine work (no smoke, strong) new top, paint 2004, better cosmetically than the 964, Black/Tan int
BOTH CARS SAME $

I have done alot of research and can't make up my mind. In your expert opinions which vehicle will be a better purchase considering.. maintenance, joy, reliability, and resale in the future? (car will be used aprox 10k per year)

I have owned a 76 carrera 3.0, a 1981 sc, and a 2001 boxster. All were good to us..

Thanks for any help you guys can provide!!!!!!!!

[KNS]

The engine rebuild on the 964 is nice. Is it documented and by whom?

You have a PM.

[pmead]

The 964 rebuild was done by Fairwinds Automotive in Bear DE. I have the service receipt with parts and machine work. The service tech noted that the engine probably suffered an engine over-rev causing valve/piston strikes and 4 broken rocker arms. The rebuild cost was 8k.

[TimNiceBut]

Personally I prefer the older style of the 964 over the newer ones, but some thing I'd want to think about would be:

• Do you need/want the AWD on the 964? It has a bit of a reputation for being expensive to repair if something goes wrong and unless I was in the market for a year-round DD (I live in snow country) I would think that the additional complexity outweighs its benefits
• Having bought too many cars with a view to fixing them up cosmetically, given a choice between two cars I equally like for the same money, I would always go for the car in better condition these days.

Also, the comment from the service tech is something that I - as a buyer - would find to be a bit of a concern. Makes you wonder how the 964 was driven.

[pmead]

I just talked to the service tech. The story on the over-rev is that the owners 18yr old son had taken the car without permission and did the damage. I have researched the 964 c4 awd and can't seem to find many reports to deserve the bad press.

[TimNiceBut]

My understanding - and I did a little research into 964 C4s myself because they're the almost perfect vehicle for out here - is that the AWD system is very good, but the few people who had issues got handed big bills. I guess part of the issue might simply be that there aren't that many Porsche mechanics out there (independent and otherwise) who know that system inside out.

It wouldn't put me off one and I might well end up with one myself, but it's one of those points that might or might not affect one's opinion.

Especially as I tend to have the luck of the Irish when buying vehicles...

[bri450sl]

Don't know too much about the 964, but my '95 993 cab has been bulletproof. I have about 81,000 miles and still has original clutch/suspension. I know the suspension will need to be replaced at some point soon, but I'm not an aggressive driver, so for me, it drives just fine. I think if you find a good 993, they don't have to be a money trap. As far as the drive goes, the single biggest surprise was how comfortable it is on a long trip. For the performance that it has, I expected it to have a rough and "twitchy" ride. It was directly the opposite. Not loose or soft, just right (even with the old suspension). I went on a 4500 mile drive this summer and my wife and I had 12 hour days and we still wanted to drive further. Just an amazing machine.

[aigel]

What's the story on the 993 paint? That's a pretty new car for needing a full repaint.

Do you need the 4x4 (pun intended)? Because for driving in the dry it isn't a terribly useful option. It adds weight and no performance advantage, if not making the car handle worse IMHO.

Have you driven both cars? Which one did you like better?

My vote is for the 993 if the paint can be explained and is a top notch job. I believe it will hold its value better, especially considering that both cars are the same price.

G

[pmead]

I have driven the 964. It runs very well, with no unusual noises. Suspension feels good with no chassis/body rattles etc...
I will drive the 993 this Saturday. I have not had a chance to inspect the paint job closely. What should compression be on the 993? (I am guessing 200+ with consistency)
The C4 option is not mandatory. The 964 is local and makes it appealing.

[aigel]

The dynamic compression test numbers do not have to have a specific value (i.e. higher is better). It is important that they are all close to each other (generally within 10%). The absolute number depends on the state of the battery, starter, air temperature, elevation etc. and can vary greatly between engines that all have good compression.

I would worry about what warranted a full repaint. A fender bender usually does not trigger that. Sometimes you have a guy that's anal and just wants all paint chips and door dings gone and spends $10k on a nice paint job. That'll be fine if the car doesn't demand top dollar. But if there is a side swipe accident wrecking 50% of all the body panels that triggered the paint job, then I'd proceed carefully.

Please let us know how the test drive / checking out the 993 goes.

You will want to subject the car you want to buy to a pre purchase inspection and have a set of professional eyes thoroughly check it out.

G

[pmead]

Owner says that the car (993) rolled backwards in the garage with the door open and he decided to paint entire car to take care of door and normal chips etc..... This will not be an issue if the respray was done properly. The clutch was replaced @ 80k. This is a plus.

[Emo993]

The 993, I have one, a 98, love it, it is also bullet proof, no issues. Better ride, better handling, better looking. mark

[aigel]

Originally Posted by pmead

Owner says that the car (993) rolled backwards in the garage with the door open and he decided to paint entire car to take care of door and normal chips etc..... This will not be an issue if the respray was done properly. The clutch was replaced @ 80k. This is a plus.

It starts to sound better now. That is if he has receipts or pictures to back up his story. The cost of the paint job will help understand if it was a $500 MAACO job or a proper repaint.

The 993 has a lot of improvements that I appreciate over the 964. You may want to read up on the differences in Bill's great thread:

964 vs 993, a systems analysis

I do like tan interiors much better than grey. Of course it could be worse and be light blue.

Keep us posted!

G

[midnight911]

Classic Porsche magazine (i think) just had a 13-porsche shoot out article which covered 991 to the long hood and the reviewers liked 964 quite a lot over 993. of course older car performance and feel very much depends on how the car is maintained but i find the article very interesting.

[f3nr15]

I think the article was in Evo magazine, and they did love the 964.

There's not enough between a 964 and 993 to say that one is vastly superior. Drive both, and buy whichever one 'talks' to you.

[Newsboy]

I think it ultimately comes down to body styles. The last of the old, of the first of the new. Big advantage goes to the 964 with only 5k on the engine. The AWD system also comes into play when your driving in wet weather.

[techman1]

Had an '88, moved to a '95, was considering a '92.

Deciding factors (for me)

Love doing my own work, but what I was always challenged at (Skill, lack of space..) was valve adjustments. Did not ever feel confident enough to do them on the '88, so the hydraulic valves of the 993 won.

Liked the looks, self contained design, and ease of removability of the 993 lights when waxing the car. Not sure of the 964 system.

Not sure if it was the particular cars I test drove, but the 993 seemed like there was less wind noise.

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by aigel

Because for driving in the dry it isn't a terribly useful option. It adds weight and no performance advantage, if not making the car handle worse IMHO.

Disagree, though I could completely see how an experienced RWD 911 driver would balk at the change in feel to AWD.

My car can put the power down in the real world with a lot more flexibility in terms of surfaces than I believe a RWD car could. I'm not a great driver, but the C4 makes me look like a hero when I come rocketing off a 35mph onramp WFO at the top of 3rd.

I have removed the front sway to curb understeer.

Agree with the others- the difference is bodystyle and AWD; which do you prefer?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by porterdog

Disagree, though I could completely see how an experienced RWD 911 driver would balk at the change in feel to AWD.

My car can put the power down in the real world with a lot more flexibility in terms of surfaces than I believe a RWD car could. I'm not a great driver, but the C4 makes me look like a hero when I come rocketing off a 35mph onramp WFO at the top of 3rd.

I have removed the front sway to curb understeer.

Agree with the others- the difference is bodystyle and AWD; which do you prefer?

I have no real world experience driving any 911 in the wet or snow (see my location). I do however have experience autocrossing a wide variety of mainly stock cars, having been a PCA AX school instructor.

It is possible a modified 4x4 911 will handle better (see your suspension mod), but every 4x4 student car in stock form (964 and 993) that I had the pleasure to drive had severe understeer and did poorly as a result in AX.

This is how I came to form my opinion. I may get a 4x4 one day but only in the form of a 993 Biturbo.

G

[midnight911]

Originally Posted by f3nr15

I think the article was in Evo magazine, and they did love the 964.

There's not enough between a 964 and 993 to say that one is vastly superior. Drive both, and buy whichever one 'talks' to you.

Peter, thanks for the correction! :-)

I also agree with the comments, drive and pick the one you like. I personally do not go for an AWD so, AWD usually do not come up on my list...