How many of you have had noisy (squealing) brakes on your 964??

Bill Wagner · 11-12-2001, 09:44 PM

I'm just curious. I have the problem and I'm pretty sure I know what the cause is, but I wonder how many others out there have had squealing brakes on their 964s, and what repairs were done to get rid of it.

Thanks in advance

Bill Wagner

Planter91C2 · 11-13-2001, 05:44 AM

i have a squeal once when i first back out of the driveway and at some other isolated low mph stops but thats it.

Mike Feinstein · Mike Feinstein's Garage

Same here....an occasional squeak when rolling to a stop. Nothing even remotely worth messing with. I know that any "adjustments" that I would make would have the brakes singing like a canary at every opportunity.

JonSeigel · 11-13-2001, 06:22 PM

Hi Bill:

Only happens when I've been driving and braking awhile and I come to a dragged out/very slow stop. As Mike F. stated, it's not worth messing with.

Jon

Mikewu · 11-15-2001, 11:40 AM

Same squealing noise here, only during slow stops. Coming from the front.

Roland Kunz · 11-18-2001, 01:13 AM

Tech Tip - 512TR Brake Squeal Revisted

Jeffrey Wilson, Director of Technical Services and Parts for Ferrari North America, has some concern about the solution for the brake squeal problem in the 512 TRs, as recommended in a Tech Tip in Sempre Ferrari, Volume 2, Issue 2. The factory’s alternative approach is listed below:

"After contacting the Ferrari Factory’s Technical Department, I would like to provide our view as to the proper way to address the brake squeal in this particular automobile. We feel that this brake squeal, when it exists, is solely due to the overheating and/or the improper "bedding in" of the new brake pads. This situation can be cured by removing the pads, which should show signs of the metallic particles, scraping these metallic particles from the pad, cleaning and sanding the pad as well as chamfering the edges of the pad material and reinstalling the pad. Following the proper run-in procedure, which also applies to new brake pads, that is, light braking at low speeds followed by light braking at moderate speeds and at high speed with braking pressure increased during this time. We feel that this should reduce the amount of brake squeal most vehicles exhibit, however, keep in mind that the configuration of our braking system does not lend itself to removing the squealing completely. However, it is, therefore, still possible to have a "groan" type noise just before the vehicle comes to a complete stop. This is due to the nature of the crossed drilled rotors on the vehicle."

http://www.fca-sw.org/sw/article.asp?id=418&feature=2

Rufblackbird · 11-25-2001, 12:22 PM

I thought this problem can be solved by applying anti-seize or some kind of silicon lubricant to the back of the brake pads so the piston and the pads don't rub and squeal?

wachuko · wachuko's Garage

Bill, I have the noise but have done nothing to fix it.

I have seen posts where people change the brake pad compound to minimize the noise. Also the sanding the edges of the pad helps.

Roland Kunz · 11-26-2001, 01:31 PM

Hello

The brake system has the poblem that it should be massive ( or better said heavy ) to have a lower resonance frequenzy yet the brake has to meet other issues as well.

There is no waranty that the brake will be silent all the time under all conditions but if everything is on the optimum working togehter you will not recognize the noise.

First step is always to check the calipers as the Brembo units have stainless steel end plates in the channel and under those the aluminum can oxide and bend the plate inwards witch leads to binding from the brake pad carrier plate if it expands under heat.

The anti size or plasti lube can add a slight part but not overrun major problems. But most mechanics ( or workshoppolitics ) prefer to try fast and cheap fixes and look after it when it isn´t responding to the usuall methodes.

The 964 system is designed with anti sque and anti rattlel pads on the back from the pads and the major problem is the massive friction generatet by the system. If you press your lod Pedal you will be pissed if the 250 Ponys didn´t sound like 250 Stallions yet when you push the pedal to the left you are pissed when some 1200 HP brake power make a slight shreek.

Yet the engeneers working out that problems are beyound any physics and pissed that a computer simulation will maybe work on a new car but not on a older street used car witch has some major influences like slight waer into the bearings or a slight sticking caliper due to dirt or a bad brake hose.

These constructions where on every limit and pure race technology made streetable. Porsche wiould have saved many money if they just had used some heavy steel calipers for street use.

Grüsse

Drew_K · 11-26-2001, 02:31 PM

I have the same problem from the rear brakes when coming to a stop. I spray the brakes whenever I wash the car and that seems to get rid of the squeak for about a week.

Drew
92 C2

Rando · 08-20-2002, 02:52 PM

My brakes squeal SOOOO badly that they nearly crack the fillings in my teeth. I'm desperate !

I've had my 90C2 Cab for a couple of years now... I'm still not used to it. Been asking mechanics and such how to "fix" it and they gave me that letter from Porsche that's posted here... then told me to buy ear plugs.

Found this site a few weeks ago and others like it for the 964's... All the information in here is GREAT ! Like I've died and gone to 964 heaven

With all the information that I've gathered from here and other sites I'm going to "attempt" to resolve my squealing brake situation. Or at the very least reduce the number of "dirty looks" that I get when I come to a stop at a red light

sms1305 · 08-20-2002, 05:20 PM

Mine squeal, too, Bill.

Darrell Wong · 08-23-2002, 08:12 PM

Bill,
Having just replaced all 4 rotors,pads and anti-squeel discs (all OEM) the brakes
squeel to the point of embaressment. I must admit they have quited down a bit but after they get warmed up a bit they begin to scream. I have read most solutions on this site as well as Rennlists, but what have you done to actually solve it. I have been a bit lazy and haven't found the time to pull all the pads again, so when I finally do find the time I hope to know how to solve this.
Thanks

Bill Wagner · 10:10 PM

I wrote the original post a long time ago. Since then I did the following:

1. Isolated the offending wheel. I did this by flushing the brake area with a powerful stream of water (you have to do this one wheel at a time and when the brakes are COOL, otherwise you may warp the rotor). I would flush one wheel out one day, drive the car and see if the noise lessened/disappeared, and then do it on another wheel the next day. I found one of the front wheels to be the culprit. FWIW, flushing the brake area out like that kept the noise down if not completely gone for about 50 miles.

2. Once I isolated the noise maker I replaced all the damping related stuff. In mine the dampers were pretty much shot. There was also corrosion (not much but it was there) behind the pad where it meets the damper, so I cleaned that up. I then re-applied all the new damping equipment like it's supposed to be installed.

Now my original noise maker is quiet, but the other side is starting to make the noise.

Other people have reported that the following work:

1. Eliminate the dampers all together. I'm not sure how good an idea this is, but it implies that the dampers themselves may be making the noise. I think this is possible if they aren't seated on the adhesive "sheet" that fits over the damping plate.

2. Switch to Metal Masters. The OEM pads put out WAY to much dust, but they are decent pads. It's the excessive dust that seems to be at the heart of most brake noises. I've heard of a lot of people having success with the Metal Master pads, and you won't need to clean your wheels as often, but your braking ability may suffer some (that's unconfirmed by me).

In my own case, the adhesive and dampers really didn't look like they were making full contact with the pads, and as dust got in the spaces and the brakes were applied I suspect a resonance set up and produced the noise. I'm sure the small amounts of corrosion didn't help much either.

If the adhesive isn't seated properly (or is not sticking to the back of the pad) the dampers are effectively USELESS. If there's corrosion on the back of the pad, once again the damping system is useless because the dampers start to separate from the pads. Some mechanics may not be aware of the fact that the adhesive needs to make full contact with the back of the pad and just re-install old dampers. Some of the earlier cars had different brake setups (I think it's the C2s) in that they only have single piston vs. dual piston calipers in the rear.

For those interested, Pelican sells the Metal Master pads. I don't know if you still need the dampers, or whether they come with their own. I'm considering switching to them because the dust build up on my wheels in some places has gotten next to impossible to clean off.

Hope this helps,

Bill Wagner

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:23 PM

Hey Guys,
Well since I also own a C2, I have been doing allot of reading on the cars. Its amazing the car even runs with all the assocheated problems : )
Porsche Technical Bulletin 4745 - 9108

C2/4 1989-On, 911 Turbo 1991, also affects 944S2/Turbo 1989-On and the 924S4, 928GT 1988-On. Someone please post this info to the other boards.

Application of Vibration Dampers and Damping Plates

1. Customer complaints of objectionable brake noise on certain vehicles require that the technician first inspect the vehicle for the existence of vibration dampers and damping plates.

there is more...but it might just be easier to scan the pages and paste them in. Guess I could link them, but the linking is more on Wayne's end. I will just post them after this email. I sized them down and cut out what wasn't need to keep the text large enough to read. If I can post them this size, I will check into linking them.

I will be adding another post about the latest on my C2, but have a little more work to do first.

FYI-I will be away from work until 09/02/02 with the kids on summer break. I will try to log on from home and see what's going on.

Hope to see you guys at Pomona on Sunday at Oh Dark 30 !
See ya,
Don

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:25 PM

Tech_Bulletin_4745-9148_pg1

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:27 PM

try it again....
Tech_Bulletin_4745-9148_pg1

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:27 PM

Tech_Bulletin_4745-9148_pg2

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:28 PM

Tech_Bulletin_4745-9148_pg3

Don Haney · 08-23-2002, 11:40 PM

Hey Guys,
The above parts are not in the catalog or in stock (well I doubt it and I doubt Porsche would at the local level either)
These would be special ordered. As long as they are in the united stated and Pelican gets your order by 2pm PST 08/26/02, they would be here on Tuesday 08/27 and ready to ship out to you. Since they are special order, you will need to call 888-280-7799 and the sales staff can look up prices and order them for those who want them. If you are going to order them on Monday 08/26, please make sure you have the correct part number for your application to give to the Sales Staff. They will not have this info handy to refer too.
Hope this helps and see ya in a week.
Don