Help please! really bad noises & stranded car...

[jmroach]

Car: 1990 c2 cab w/ 60k miles.

Driving home last night going ~50 in 4th gear and accelerating slightly my car suddenly lost power and made a noticeable (but not violent), mid-frequency, high-speed clicking sound. I popped the clutch as quickly as I could and was able to coast into a parking lot.

I tried to start the car and it won't start or turn over much (can't tell if it's ceased).

Two questions I was hoping to get help on:

1) what should I do next? I was going to try to gently turn over the engine at the flywheel nut to see if it is indeed ceased.

2) what could be wrong? the things i'm imagining aren't pretty... timing chain, etc...

Additional notes:
Oil was changed ~6 months ago and checked maybe a 2 months ago. I drive the car about every other week for 15-30 miles. It leaks about a drop every couple weeks from the block parting in line (under engine shroud removed).

No smell, no smoking. I didnt see anything obvious or out of place around the fan area. It might not have been clear from initial description, the car died (zero rpms when clutch was pushed) when driving after the described symptoms.

Getting the car flat-bedded home now to put up on the lift.

Thanks in advance!!!

[jmroach]

Update: got the car home and up on the lift. Pulled the exhaust and took the exhaust-side plugs out. I tried to turn it over by hand (yes, neutral) using the fan-adjacent nut and squeezing the belts by hand. It doesn't seem to want to turn over.

[mikedsilva]

take all plugs out first... might be too much compression
what happens if you engage the starter?

i hope its something simple like a dist belt snapped....

[jmroach]

Thanks, mikedsilva. i'll pull the rest of the plugs.

when engaging the starter it just "clicks" and doesn't turn the engine over. it's not the same as a 'dead battery' click.

i'm likely going to pull some more shrouds and try to get a wrench on the crank nut itself instead of turning over the engine w/ the fan nut and pulley. search didn't turn up much-- is there a special tool that fits from the topside? looks like an offset wrench of the right size might fit but it looks too tight for a socket.

[bbturbo]

If you cannot get to the bottom of it, it may be worth it to give Bob Farmer a call. He more than likely will know right away, which may save you some time.

[group911@aol.co]

If you pulled a plug on all cylinders and it won't turn over, probably seized.
Might try pulling the lower valve covers since you have the exhaust off and see if the valve train is intact.

[jmroach]

Update: drained the oil and both of the plug magnets were clean. I'll probably pull the valve covers tomorrow evening or borescope th cylinders.

Confirming: there is no clutch inspection port, right? There is the port above the slave, but you can't see the clutch plate, right?

[Lost Canyon]

Did the battery check show a full charge? The clicking sound could be no spark?

[jmroach]

I'll hook the battery up to the charger just to be safe, but i don't think that's it. the windows/accessories are working fine.

[ganun]

Originally Posted by jmroach

Update: drained the oil and both of the plug magnets were clean. I'll probably pull the valve covers tomorrow evening or borescope th cylinders.

Confirming: there is no clutch inspection port, right? There is the port above the slave, but you can't see the clutch plate, right?

When you tried turning the engine by hand did you try to turn it backwards a small amount, say 10 degrees, does it turn backwards at all, or absolutely stuck, no forward nor backwards rotation.
I was thinking about a post here a while ago that presented a similar situation that turned out to be a bolt that had fallen into the space between the crankshaft fan pulley and the engine bracket , yeah down that hole, and jammed there.

[mikedsilva]

subscribed... waiting with baited breath...

[trak ratt]

Broken rocker? Had one give up the ghost on our 964 during a DE ~4 years ago and similar noise and lose of power.

Had one FAIL on the 3.2 race car the next season and it took out a lot of other stuff when it did. Resulting in engine not turning over much. Could try turning engine backwards a bit just to see it's some jammed bits.

Back in the day word was P made them "weak" so valve float wouldn't always mean bent valves. Not sure I buy that but I do know that at 20-30 years they seem to be failing under much less load. IIRC most engine builders now replace out of hand or at least check for cracks.

[bpu699]

Did you try a leakdown test?

Take off the chain covers and see if a chain snapped...

Sounds worrisome for valve contact....

[jmroach]

Another update:
- Tried counter-rotating the engine to free- no luck.
- Removed intake & exhaust valve covers on both sides and no sign of damage.
- Removed both timing covers (the pass side sure is a pain!) and no sign of damage.

Haven't gotten my hands on a borescope yet. I'll be placing a call to Bob Farmer tomorrow to see if he has any ideas. I still have my fingers crossed for the clutch or something else benign.

[DCinVA]

Generally speaking, clicking noises are indicative of valve train issues.
Check all the valve clearences for excessive play. If one is really loose, that is an issue.

[jmroach]

Another update: pulled the starter and still can't get the engine to move much. it actually seems (but i might be imagining it) like it may be a touch more freed (moving ~5deg) judging from the cam gear.

@DCinVA: the valve train looks fine to me. i obviously can't check clearances as the engine/cams won't move, but none appear to have excessive play and contact on all of the cams looked fine (only shiny on lobes).

[mikedsilva]

updates??

[Nine9six]

Generally speaking, clicking noises are indicative of valve train issues.
Check all the valve clearences for excessive play. If one is really loose, that is an issue.

Generally speaking, if the motor wont turn, there wont be a lot of checking valve clearances. Maybe if we could get them to spin independently from each other...

[mreid]

You are placing the tranny in neutral and trying to turn it over. Have someone depress the clutch pedal and try. This may be a tranny issue.

[jmroach]

Found it! I guess it's better than some alternatives, but I still feel better knowing what it is and that I don't have to rebuild the engine.

I noticed that the CV boot on the driver's side was perished and that the cloth heater tubes were dry rotted. I removed the 1/2 shaft and tube and this bolt and the scar it left behind were staring me in the face:



The picture is looking back and toward the center of the car from the driver's side.

Is that the flywheel?